From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:44:39 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 1 Jun 1993 13:26:11 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2245; Tue, 01 Jun 93 13:25:10 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 3322; Tue, 01 Jun 93 13:18:27 EDT Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1993 10:17:32 -0700 Reply-To: jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Subject: Re: TECH: pe'a/po'a proposal X-To: lojban@cuvmb.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 May 93 04:49:04 EDT." <9305300047.AA04015@julia.math.ucla.edu> Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Tue Jun 1 03:17:32 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Message-ID: Lojbab writes about figurative speech: > While technically permitted by the lack of an official policy forbidding > it, I consider even lujvo that are that 'poetic' to be "mabla" > (derogative) unles marked, and proposed the rafsi for "pe'a" as part of > the current change proposal as an answer. To my mind, the major technical problem standing in the way of dikyjvo / diktanru is how to handle the essential category of poetic metaphor. I support this change (as extended subsequently in the posting) which would remove that obstacle. > However, further thought, and the discussion with Nora, suggests that > the status quo would suffice, given John's description, with only a > small broadening of the use of "po'a". If Nora's basic contention is > true, and Frank's second category is really not truly independent, then > the whole of metaphor can be viewed as a continuum from restriction to > (poetic) expansion. Examples that Frank or others might place in the > 2nd category might be considered as being on the midpoint of that scale. I agree with this idea of variable degrees of figurativeness. On the idea that unmarked tanru will henceforth represent restrictions: We should remember that there's more than one kind of restriction. 1. poi: le cmalu mlatu = le mlatu poi cmalu (the small cat) 2. be: lo salta tanxe = lo tanxe be lo salta (a salad box, a box of salad) 3. belenu: citka bapli = bapli be fi le nu (X) citka (force feed) 4. parallel: nenri klama = x1 goes to x2 and x1 [starts out? ends up?] inside of x2 James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6221 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90024-1555 Internet: jimc@math.ucla.edu BITNET: jimc%math.ucla.edu@INTERBIT UUCP:...!{ucsd,ames,ncar,gatech,purdue,rutgers,decvax,uunet}!math.ucla.edu!jimc