From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Tue Jun 22 22:46:43 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 23 Jun 1993 02:49:11 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9112; Wed, 23 Jun 93 02:47:50 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 8449; Wed, 23 Jun 93 02:48:22 EST Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 02:46:43 EDT Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: new animal gismu X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch X-Status: Status: OR Message-ID: I will merely observe that the status quo has a solid majority of the LLG membership as extreemeely minimalist on the gismu list,, and thus highly resistant to adding new ones if there is even a mediocre lujvo available. I have also indicated to Cowan that I think by intent, the word curnu can be extended to include all muticellular invertabrates (single-cells are covered under selci or jurme), especially since most of them are essentially worms of some sort anyway. Cowan seemed to agree, in which case mollusk is covered by shell-worm. If jukni is extended to cover all non-insectoid arthropods, claw-jukni works well for crab/lobster. If jalra includes all of the Orthopteran super-order and its descendants, it includes cockroaches, termites (which otherwise do not fit bilogiically even if they do fit the 'common household pest' definition), and grasshoppers crickets, and locusts, and a few others are covered, and it shouldn't be too hard to make restrictive lujvo, if not great ones. Alternatively civla and jalra and sfani could take non-biological definitions, referring to pests of the insectoid variety that respectively 1) suck blood or otherwise parasite on living creatures 2) craw on or in surfaces rather more than they fly 3) fly. I would then be prone to add spiders as a clearly identifyable 4 th kind, bees/wasps/hornets as a 5th kind, and use cinki to refer to bugs/beetles and all others that are arthropods, but not one of the categorized specialties. Crab then becomes claw-cinki. On the whole, we have avoid having gismu defined technically as opposed to by common lay interpretations. Thus 'winged mouse' would be perfectly fine for 'bat' if that is something that is done by several other cultrues, as I suspect it is. THus we can more or less solve most of the possibilities without adding gismu, and whether or not the solution is thought 'good', the existence of two different approaches, means that proposals are unlikely to fly at LogFest without really surprising changes. Remember that a few LogFests ago, 'gumri' for mushroom, and already existing gismu, was deleted in favor of the to-me-gross 'umbrella-mold', in the interest of cutting the number of gismu (that one grates because it happens to be one of the two deleted gismu that I cannot forget, and always want to use - the other being the unusable word for 'chin' which got overrwritten when we moved none other than 'cinki' on top of it in order to giveit a good rafsi. Both of these changes occured several years ago, before the first gismu baseline. lojbab