From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Tue Aug 31 05:15:33 1993 Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:18:49 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:18:45 -0400 Message-Id: <199308311318.AA03187@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0975; Tue, 31 Aug 93 09:17:17 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 8460; Tue, 31 Aug 93 09:20:01 EDT Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:15:33 EDT Reply-To: "Robert J. Chassell" Sender: Lojban list From: "Robert J. Chassell" Subject: Re: TECH: X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: <9308301502.AA07199@albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu> (message from John Cowan on Mon, 30 Aug 1993 10:40:17 -0400) Status: O X-Status: 1. The evidential "ba'a" ... means that the statement is justified by future events as anticipated by the speaker ... As Nick Nicholas suggests, keep as is. 2. The discursives "va'i" and "ke'u" both represent scales referring to repeating what has been said vs. saying something new. "va'i" means "in other words" and "va'inai" means "repeating the same words". "ke'u" means "repeating the same idea" and "ke'unai" means "continuing to a new idea". This is confusing and worth changing. Other things being eaul, I would change {ke'u}: I find that in my conversation I am more likely to remember that I should signal that I am "continuing to a new idea" than that I am repeating myself. My listeners notice when I repeat myself...but I don't...:-) The problem is that "ke'u" is hooked to {krefu} and is well defined as is: ke'u UI3 repeating discursive: repeating - continuing krefu ref ke'u recur x1 (event) is the x3'rd recurrence/repetition of x2 (abstract); x2 happens again in [form] x1 %% 7j 56 However, {va'i} is easy to change, and indeed you can easily argue that the default of something associated with `word' should be `more of the same', i.e., "in the same words". va'i UI3 in other words discursive: in other words - in the same words valsi val vla word x1 is a word meaning/causing x2 in language x3 %% 1b 183 {va'i} then becomes an expression to use then you are disgusted that someone is repeating themselves, even by using the same phrases, as is often a problem for politicians and other public speakers. Repeating yourself can get really boring....:-) Robert J. Chassell bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu Rattlesnake Mountain Road bob@grackle.stockbridge.ma.us Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA (413) 298-4725