Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 18 Aug 1993 13:33:20 -0400
Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 18 Aug 1993 13:33:15 -0400
Message-Id: <199308181733.AA09573@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2)
   with BSMTP id 9585; Wed, 18 Aug 93 13:31:59 EDT
Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with
 BSMTP id 6055; Wed, 18 Aug 93 13:34:35 EDT
Date:         Wed, 18 Aug 1993 13:31:50 EDT
Reply-To: Jorge LLambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Jorge LLambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: na'e pu'i (Was: La Cucaracha)
X-To:         C.J.Fine@bradford.ac.uk
X-Cc:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
Status: O
X-Status: 
X-From-Space-Date: Wed Aug 18 09:31:50 1993
X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET

Colin says:

> I don't think anybody has answered Jorge:
> +++++>
>
> John, you said nothing of my choice of {pu'i} over {ka'e} or {nu'o}.
> I'm not sure what {na'e pu'i} means: demonstrated inability?
> >++++++++
>
> I believe that
>         na'e pu'i broda
>
> means other-than-demonstrated-ability broda.

Actually, John did respond, and gave that answer. I'm happy that the
two answers agree. ;-)


> If it is true, as I believe,  that the following relations hold among
> the CAhA words:
>
> ca'a -> pu'i -> ke'a
> nu'o -> ke'a
> pu'i  =>^ nu'o
> nu'o => ^pu'i
>
> One might construe 'na'e pu'i' as meaning
> "a state for which a different term from pu'i would be
> more appropriate", and hence include 'ca'a' as a
> possibility. I think this would be perverse, and
> therefore suggest that
> na'e pu'i
> means the same as
> nu'o ja na'e ka'e
> 'has not and maybe cannot'
>
>
>         Colin
>

This seems reasonable, and then it is not what I want to use for
a cockroach who can't walk because it has lost two of its legs.

I guess {na'e ka'e} will have to do, and the {ca} should provide the
suggestion that it was able to walk in the past:

        ___le jalra ca na'e ka'e cadzu___

{ca'o} would be completely wrong here, if it really implies that the
event will cease in the future.

I could also say:

        ___le jalra ca ba'o ka'e cadzu___


and avoid negatives altogether. I think this is the one I like most.

Jorge