Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 11:01:48 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 11:01:44 -0400 Message-Id: <199308301501.AA03610@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6223; Mon, 30 Aug 93 11:00:15 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 1503; Mon, 30 Aug 93 11:02:49 EDT Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 10:40:17 -0400 Reply-To: John Cowan Sender: Lojban list From: John Cowan Subject: TECH: a few proposals anent attitudinals X-To: Lojban List To: Erik Rauch Status: O X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Mon Aug 30 06:40:17 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET No, no grammar changes this time; just a few possible cmavo changes on which I want comment, please. I am in process of (re)writing the attitudinal paper, including lots more material, and a few oddities have struck my eye. 1. The evidential "ba'a", meaning "I expect - I experience - I remember", is explained as follows: > The three scale positions of "ba'a", when attached to a bridi, indicate > that it is based on the speaker's view of the real world. Thus "ba'a" > means that the statement is justified by future events as anticipated > by the speaker; "ba'acu'i", by present events as experienced by the speaker; > "ba'anai", by past events as remembered by the speaker. The memory hook for "ba'a" is "balvi", which is why the future position is taken to be the "positive" one. Should "ba'a" be reversed to get the past on the left, as it were? Should a new cmavo be assigned in that case? 2. The discursives "va'i" and "ke'u" both represent scales referring to repeating what has been said vs. saying something new. "va'i" operates at the level of words: "va'i" means "in other words" and "va'inai" means "repeating the same words". "ke'u", OTOH, operates at the level of ideas: "ke'u" means "repeating the same idea" and "ke'unai" means "continuing to a new idea". As can be seen, these scales are oppositely aligned: "va'i" corresponds to "ke'unai", and "ke'u" to "va'inai". Should one be changed to match the other? If so, "va'i" is the natural one to change, because its memory hook is just "valsi" whereas "ke'u" is tied to "krefu". OTOH, "va'i" has seen some use, both on the net and in print -- it's used in one of Nora's cartoons. -- John Cowan cowan@snark.thyrsus.com ...!uunet!lock60!snark!cowan e'osai ko sarji la lojban.