Message-Id: <199308150631.AA10461@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Sun, 15 Aug 1993 02:30:09 EDT
Reply-To: Logical Language Group <lojbab@GREBYN.COM>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Logical Language Group <lojbab@GREBYN.COM>
Subject:      Re: Some how do you say it's
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
Status: O

Not to say that I favor or disafavor it as a solution, why does kabryselmre
require a measuring agent place.  If it isn't interesting leave it out - it
is a lujvo, after all.

Whether a 'cupful' is  a cupful or not, though may indeed be determined by
who is doing the measuring, so I wouldn't be unhappy with it being there,
if it is in a high numbered place.  I mean, is a cupful of coffee a cupful if
it is filled to within 1/4 in of the top, 1/2", 3/4" 1", 20%, or what?

But don;t let the search for regularity in lujvo place structures force you
to put in a place that you just plain don't want - we don't need a place
deleter in a lujvo - only in a tanru.

(i say this as an extreme - if a place is deleted that is in some way
metaphysically important to the concept AS INTENDED), it should not be
delted.  But for most people the concept of

"cupful" is a measurement where the measurer and indeed the inherent subjecti-
vity of the measurement, are not essential.  Or if they are, then the
subjectivity is that of the distinction between lo and le (use lo kabryselmre
when  the cupful fills the cup exactly to the brim and never with any other
cupfuls, which might be 'cupfuls' only because of the intensionality of
"le" in "le kabryselmre".

lojbab