Message-Id: <199308310834.AA17213@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Tue, 31 Aug 1993 04:32:28 EDT
Reply-To: Logical Language Group <lojbab@GREBYN.COM>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Logical Language Group <lojbab@GREBYN.COM>
Subject:      possible sumti-raising place structures of the sisku variety
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
Status: O

Inputs welcome!
Following are all gismu and their place structures that clearly suggest
that an object or an abstract is permitted in some place, as indicated
by a specific dichotomy in parentheses.  I have fixed sisku and djica
per comments on the list.


cerda heir x1 is an heir to/is to inherit x2 (object/quality) from x3
according to rule x4 a 13 (cf. jgina)

fliba fail 'baffle' x1 fails at doing/being x2 (object/state/event); x1
is a failure 8g 4 (cf. cfila, snada, srera, troci)

jarco show x1 (person/object) shows/exhibits/displays/reveals x2
(object/property) to audience x3 8c 85 [reveal (= mipyja'o, sivja'o);
also demonstrate]; (cf. tigni)

jbera borrow x1 (agent) borrows/temporarily takes/assumes x2
(object/property) from source x3 for interval x4 3m 6 [credit (=
jernu'e)]; (cf. dejni)

jundi attentive 'attend' x1 is attentive towards/attends/tends/pays
attention to object/affair x2 4d 76 (cf. kurji, zvati)

kargu costly x1 (object/property) is costly/expensive/dear to x2 by
standard x3 5e 55 (cf. vamji, dirba, vajni)

klina clear x1 (object/media) is clear/transparent/without obstacle to
in-the-clear x2 [transmission] 7j 32 [also lucid; x2 remains
apparent/lucid/clear (figurative use for 'understandable' is
discouraged)]; (cf. kandi)

kucli curious x1 is curious/wonders about/is interested in/[inquisitive
about] x2 (object/abstract) 9d 31 [inquisitive (= retkucli)]; (cf.
manci, sisku, se cinri)

lebna take x1 takes/gets/gains/obtains/seizes/[removes] x2
(object/property) from x3 (possessor) 2b 81 [also confiscate,
appropriate]; [acquire with volition such that x1 gains possession; x3
is possessor and not merely source, alienation is implied]; (cf. punji,
cpacu where volition or previous possession is not necessarily implied,
vimcu for alienation where x1 need not gain possession)

nelci fond 'likes' x1 is fond of/likes/has a taste for x2 (object/state)
2i 180 (cf. cinmo, djica, pluka, prami, rigni, sinma, trina, xebni)

prami love x1 loves/feels strong affectionate devotion towards x2
(object/state) 9d 115 (cf. cinmo, xebni, nelci, djica, sinma)

sanji conscious x1 is conscious/aware of x2 (object/abstract); x1
discerns/recognizes x2 (object/abstract) =6m 48 [awareness implies some
amount of mental processing above and beyond mere sensory detection, and
may also be applied to mental relationships that are not detected by the
senses]; (cf. menli, morji, ganse, sipna, cikna)

sidbo idea x1 (idea abstract) is an idea/concept/thought about x2
(object/abstract) by thinker x3 9e 81 (cf. ciksi, jijnu, mucti, jinvi,
nabmi, pensi)

steci specific 'special' x1 is specific/particular/specialized/[special]
to subset/ind. x2 among x3(s) (set/members) 7j 39 [also:  especially
associated]; (x1 is an object/property); [x2 is also special to x1];
(cf. srana, se ponse, ckini)

xebni hate x1 hates x2 (object/state/other abstraction) 2i 55 (cf.
djica, nitcu, rigni, prami, nelci)

bandu defend x1 (event) defends/protects x2 (obj./state) from
threat/peril/potential x3 (event); x1 wards x3 8g 9 [also secures
(verb); x1 resists x3]; (cf. ckape, fanta, fapro, marbi, rivbi, zunti)

cilre learn x1 learns x2 (du'u) about subject x3 from source x4
(obj./event)/by method x5 (event/process) *1h 85 (cf. ctuca, tadni,
djuno, ckule)

ckana bed x1 is a bed/pallet of material x2 for holding/supporting x3
(person/object/event) an 111 (cf. kamju, kicne, nilce, palta, cpana,
vreta, jubme, stizu, matci, zbepi)

ckire grateful x1 is grateful/thankful to/appreciative of x2 for x3
(object/event/property) 2l 53 [also gratitude (= nunckire or kamckire)]

cmila laugh 'smile' x1 laughs at x2 (object/event/circumstance) 1g 64
(cf. ckasu, frumu, xajmi, cisma)

curmi let 'permit' x1 agent lets/permits/allows x2 (object/event) under
conditions x3; x1 grants privilege x2 8e 57

darsi audacity 'dare' x1 shows audacity/chutzpah in behavior x2
(event/activity); x1 dares to do/be x2 (object/event) a 6 [x1 is bold];
(cf. virnu)

dicra interrupt 'disturb, disrupt' x1 (event)
interrupts/stops/halts/[disrupts] x2 (object/event/process) due to
quality x3 4d 60 (cf. zunti, fanza, raktu, denpa)

facki discover 'find' x1 discovers/finds out x2 (du'u) about
subject/object x3; x1 finds (fi) x3 (object) 4d 128 (cf. cirko, djuno,
jijnu, smadi, sisku)

farna direction x1 is the direction of x2 (object/event) from origin/in
frame of reference x3 5d 22 [x2 is towards x1 from x3]; (cf. zunle,
pritu, galtu, gapru, cnita, dizlo, berti, snanu, stuna, stici, purci,
balvi, lidne)

festi waste x1(s) is/are waste product(s) [left to waste] by x2
(object/event) a 20 (cf. xaksu)

gidva guide x1 (person/object/event) guides/conducts/pilots/leads x2
(event) 5d 17 (cf. jitro, ralju, sazri, te bende, jatna)

gunka work x1 [person] labors/works on/at x2 [activity] with
goal/objective x3 8c 174 [also x1 is a worker/laborer]; (cf. sazri,
gasnu, se jibri; zukte, which need not be labor; physics term 'work' =
ni majmu'u)

kanji calculate 'reckon' x1 calculates/reckons/computes x2 [value/state]
from data x3 by process x4 7e 0 (cf. kancu, jdice)

krasi source 'origin' x1 (site/event) is a source/start/beginning/origin
of x2 (object/event/process) 2c 156 [also root (figurative sense);
(adjective:)  x1 is initial]; (cf. fanmo, cmavo list ra'i, sabji, cfari,
fanmo)

kurji take care of 'care' x1 takes-care-of/looks after/attends
to/provides for/is caretaker for x2 (object/event/person) 2l 49 [also
tends, cares for, keeps; x1 is a keeper/custodian of x2]; (cf. jundi,
cinri, prami)

manfo uniform x1 (object/event) is uniform/homogeneous in property x2
(ka) 7j 11 (cf. prane, curve, ranji, vitno, stodi, dikni, sampu, traji)

manri reference x1 is a frame of reference/standard for
observing/measuring/determining x2, with/by rules x3 2d 70 (x1 may be
object or si'o idea); (cf. cmavo list ma'i, ckilu, merli, pajni, cimde,
jdice)

minra reflect 'mirror' x1 reflects/mirrors/echoes x2 [object/radiation]
to observer/point x3 as x4; x2 bounces on x1 *a 40 [also x1 is a
mirror/reflector]; [x2 may be light, lu'e of an imaged object; x4 may be
image or echo or the same as x2 if physical object; x3 may be a path for
a bounced object; ka is reflection]; (cf. catlu, viska, lenjo)

misno famous x1 (person/object/event) is famous/renowned/is a celebrity
among community of persons x2 (mass) 7j 8 [also celebrated/well-known;
(derogative meanings:)  notorious/infamous (= malmi'o; these could also
be expressed using the referenced words)]; (cf. se sinma, banli)

pante protest x1 protests/objects to/complains about x2
(object/event/state) to audience x3 with action x4 9c 12 (x4 is an event
or tu'a quotation)

rinju restrain x1 (object/agent) restrains/constrains x2 (object/event)
under conditions x3 3m 19 (cf. zifre, ralte, pinfu)

rivbi avoid 'evade' x1 (object/agent) avoids/evades/shuns/escapes x2
(object/event) through action/state x3 (event) a 36 (cf. bandu which is
not necessarily successful, se jersi which implies another agent, sisku,
kalte)

sisku seek x1 seeks/searches/looks for x2 (object/event) in environment
x3/for property x2 among set x3 *8g 89 (cf. cirko, kalte, kavbu, kucli,
rivbi, manci)

skicu describe x1 tells about/describes x2 (object/event/state) to
audience x3 with description x4 (property) 7j 97 (cf. lisri)

snura secure x1 is secure/safe from threat x2 (object/event) 9a 34 (cf.
ckape, kajde, marbi, terpa, xalni)

spuda reply 'respond' x1 answers/replies to/responds to
person/object/event/situation x2 with response x3 1h 67 (cf. cusku,
preti, nabmi, danfu, frati)

tarion x2
(object/event) 8d 62 (cf. cmavo list zau, natfe)

zivle invest x1 (agent) invests resources x2 in investment x3 expecting
return/profit x4 (object(s)/event) 8d 4

zvati at x1 (object/event) is at/attending/present at x2
(event/location) 4d 184 [recation for an
object/activity that is mobile]; (cf. especially stuzi for an
inherent/inalienable location, jbini, nenri, se varji for physical
shape, tapla, bliku, kubli, kurfa, cukla)

vajni important 'significant' x1 (object/event) is important/significant
to x2 (person/event) in aspect/for reason x3 (nu/ka) 8c 87 (cf. banli,
ralju, vamji)

xamgu good x1 (object/event) is good/beneficial for x2 by standard x3 2i
226 (cf. melbi, xlali, vrude, zabna)

zanru approve x1 approves of/gives favor to plan/action x2
(object/event) 8d 62 (cf. cmavo list zau, natfe)

zivle invest x1 (agent) invests resources x2 in investment x3 expecting
return/profit x4 (object(s)/event) 8d 4

zvati at x1 (object/event) is at/attending/present at x2
(event/location) 4d 184 [recation for an
object/activity that is mobile]; (cf. especially stuzi for an
inherent/inalienable location, jbini, nenri, se vasru, cpana, diklo,
jibni, cabna, lamji, tcini, xabju, jmive)


The following is not explicit, but is close enough to sisku to raise as
an issue.  Can you hunt a unicorn?

kalte hunt x1 hunts/stalks prey/quarry x2 for purpose x3 as 15 [also
verb fish (= fipkalte)]; (cf. jersi, kavbu, sisku)

This does not address several cases with "goal/objective" as the place
label - people might interpret this place other than an abstraction
in some contexts.

Comments on which of these need changing are welcome.  Too many for me
to decide when I'm not sure I understand the full ramifications of the
argument.

lojbab