Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 05:40:07 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 05:40:03 -0400 Message-Id: <199308170940.AA00327@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2894; Tue, 17 Aug 93 05:38:49 EDT Received: from YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@YALEVM) by YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 9616; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 05:38:49 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1993 10:38:51 +0100 Reply-To: Colin Fine Sender: Lojban list From: Colin Fine Subject: Re: klani places (Was: Cupfuls) To: Erik Rauch Status: O X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Tue Aug 17 11:38:51 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Thus John Cowan: ++++++++++> I agree with the complaint, but not the resolution. Colin's point makes me think that it is "klani" that has the problem: that we should make "le klani" that which is measured/counted, and "le se klani" the quantifier. The resulting proposed place structure is: x1 is quantified/measured/enumerated by x2 on scale x3 (si'o) Comments? >+++++++++ I think I agree. There are a number of gismu which are unlikely to be used in isolation, and have pe'i place structures because brivla have to have place structures, but they're pretty meaningless: examples are the multiples and submultiples (milti, gotro etc) and mabla, zabna. klani is borderline. I think most of its uses are likely to be in combination (kabrylai) and the like. On the other hand it is going to get occasional use on its own. I think that for that occasional use, the current order would be preferable. However, I think that consistency with the other measure words is a stronger argument, and so support this suggestion. Colin