Message-Id: <199308221656.AA00461@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Sun, 22 Aug 1993 12:55:54 EDT
Reply-To: Jorge LLambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Jorge LLambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: TECH: QUERY on ZI & ZEhA
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
Status: O

I answer And's questions as if I knew what I was talking about:

>
> (1) Does "cazu" mean "a long way back in time and a long way forward
> in time", so that "mi ca zu cmalu" means "I have been small for
> a long time & will continue to be small for a long time"? Or must
> I use "ca zehu" for this?
>

"ca zehu" would mean that you are small for a long time, at least
part of which is in the present, so it's almost what you have, but it
allows that in one of the directions the time is not long. "Pragmatically",
it probably means what you have. "pu je ca je ba zehu" may be more
explicit (not too sure), but also uglier.

As I see it, "cazu" is really weird, I don't think it's very useful.

"puzu" points to a time far in the past, and says that the brodaing
occurs at least at that point. It could be just at that point, or for
an interval of time, that could even reach the present. Same with "bazu"
in the future. But "cazu" points to a far away present, something very
strange. I guess it could be used metaphorically to suggest a present,
in which you (your soul, or whatever, the speaker's in general, not the
x1 sumti) are not really there. You are certainly saying that the brodaing
occurs in the present, but the zu somehow creates a (temporal) distance,
which I can't understand very well. (Notice that space distances have
nothing to do here.)

> (2) What is the difference between "ro roi" and "zehe"?
>

"ze'e" suggests that the brodaing occurs permanently, while "ro roi"
allows for "every time". "ze'e" only gives you the length of the time
interval during which the brodaing occurs, while "ro roi" stresses
that the brodaing is occuring at all the relevant points in time inside
the interval, so you could say "mi pu ze'u ro roi bilma" ~ "I was all the
time sick, for a long time in the past" (could extend to the present, but
let's ignore that).


> (3) Do ZAhO and ZEhA serve to separate a sumti from the selbri,
> the way CU does?

Yes. (I think that any tense serves for that)

> (I don't at all understand the rules for when a sumti terminates.)
>

I don't fully understand them either, but what I do for the moment is,
if it's a simple sumti, "le broda brode", then another sumti, or "cu broda",
or "tense broda" are good terminators. If it's a "le nu ..." sumti, then what
you need, I think is a "kei", if you want to have another sumti following,
otherwise, "cu broda" or "tense broda" will do. I know I'm forgetting a lot
of details, but I can't possibly learn all the rules at once, so I think
it's better to start with the ones that are most often used. I prefer to avoid
"ku" as much as possible, I think that if you need it, then the sentence will
not be very clear, and you better try to re-express it some other way.

> ------
> And
>

Jorge

(Wait for someone else's confirmation before believing any of the above.
I think it would be good if someone explained the use of terminators in the
often used cases. I know that this can be figured out from the grammar rules,
but I'm completely illiterate to read them.)