Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 15 Aug 1993 22:32:28 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sun, 15 Aug 1993 22:32:24 -0400 Message-Id: <199308160232.AA01970@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7291; Sun, 15 Aug 93 22:31:11 EDT Received: from YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@YALEVM) by YALEVM.CIS.YALE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 3719; Sun, 15 Aug 1993 22:31:11 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1993 22:30:22 EDT Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: jvoste #3 (8/10) X-To: nsn@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Status: O X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Sun Aug 15 18:30:22 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Actuallly I think the nature of a "real" lie is that it causes potential or actual damage - one meaning, or that the speaker knows that it is a lie and does so intentionally (zukte). At least in the moral sense, people seem to consider "white lies" (i.e. lies that cause no damage and indeed may enhance quality of life) to not be wrong, and indeed etiquette demands that in some cases you tell lies (if someone asks "How are you doing?" you don;t give them the true catalog of your troubles.) So there are still a lot of different concepts covered by the English word "lie", and I'd have trouble deciding which of them is a "true lie" whatever you mean by that. lojbab