From C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK Ukn Aug 2 14:01:57 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 14:01:54 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2305; Mon, 02 Aug 93 14:00:47 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 4599; Mon, 02 Aug 93 14:02:16 EDT Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 19:00:31 +0100 Reply-To: Colin Fine Sender: Lojban list From: Colin Fine Subject: Re: TECH: query on zoi & laho terminators To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: Message-ID: And asks: +++++++++++> Will the stuff marked by "zoi gy." and "laho gy." *in writing* be terminated by: (i) "energy" but not "lager" (or "saga", for you rhotics) (ii) "lager" but not "energy" (iii) either "lager" or "energy" (i) seems reasonable, but this means that what is grammatical Lojban when written may not be grammatical when read aloud. If (iii) is the rule, does it apply to spoken Lojban as well? If it does, perhaps someone should think up robust default quotation demarcators for various languages, such that the demarcators are unlikely to occur in either the speech or the writing of that language. (E.g. for quoting English "jvy." might be fairly robust (whereas for French it wouldn't be: "je veux").) ---- mihelahojvy. And jvy. >++++++++++ I believe the terminator is required to be a lojban word, and must be set off from the text by lojban pause eather end. (Since people usually use lerfu or names, the closing terminator is normally followed by a pause too, but that's not part of the rule). If I am right, then none of your examples would terminate, unless you carelessly left a space/pause, in which case i) would terminate in writing, ii) in speech. Since zoi and la'o import foreign langauges into lojban, the isomorphism between written and spoken lojban (which I believe is overstated anyway) breaks down in these cases. It is unfortunate that this could make the difference between grammatical and ungrammatical text, but geting foreign languages in is a kludge anyway, so there are bound to be problems. In any case 'jvy' is not a valid lojban word and so your signoff is not grammatical. co'o mi'e kolin