From LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU Sat Mar 6 22:50:03 2010 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 06:40:53 -0400 Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9516; Mon, 02 Aug 93 06:39:05 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 8528; Mon, 02 Aug 93 01:04:35 EDT Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 15:01:47 +1000 Reply-To: Nick Nicholas Sender: Lojban list From: Nick Nicholas Subject: Re: TECH: SE rafsi omitted in lujvo (was Re: dikyjvo, too, X-To: lojbab@GREBYN.COM X-Cc: Lojban Mailing List To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: from "Logical Language Group" at Aug 1, 93 01:31:06 am Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Ukn Aug 2 06:40:55 1993 X-From-Space-Address: nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU Message-ID: The Seraphim surely rejoiced when Logical Language Group spoke thus: #I'm not sure I see the difference between your two cases of omission of #"se". I am sure that in some cases there is indeed an error being made, #but I am also sure that in some there is an intentional abbrviation. As I said, the first case (in which the seltanru, the modifier, lacks a SE), is a tolerable abbreviation; admitting a missing SE in the tertanru (head), like in xekskapi instead of xekselskapi, is more trouble than it's worth; the base *tanru* is wrong, and it seems much harder to justify having the place structure of xekskapi be the same as that of xekselskapi; lujvo making is such that the place structure of se xekskapi can't be the same as that of xekselskapi (most pertinently, the place "le skapi" has to remain in the former). #Indeed, I would say that the usefulness of the resulting place structure #might be a factor in deciding whether to permit a final position #abbreviation, since in many cases you'd ned up with the same place structure #but a different order, if you took the 'abbrevaiation' literally. That's more or less what I've done; a form like xavymla has little usefulness when taken literally; I think you'd end up with a different interpretation in 'literal' interpretation most of the time, anyway. #In other words, keep a list of these that you want to change - we'll probably #go along with you, but I think the examples should be looked at by more people #if only for educational value. At the least, I'll expand my examples on this topic in the paper. ******************************************************************************* A freshman once observed to me: Nick Nicholas am I, of Melbourne, Oz. On the edge of the Rubicon, nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au (IRC: nicxjo) men don't go fishing. CogSci and CompSci & wannabe Linguist. - Alice Goodman, _Nixon In China_ Mail me! Mail me! Mail me! Or don't!!