From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Thu Sep 30 00:53:37 1993 Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 30 Sep 1993 04:56:40 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 30 Sep 1993 04:56:36 -0400 Message-Id: <199309300856.AA11403@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6082; Thu, 30 Sep 93 04:54:55 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 5016; Thu, 30 Sep 93 04:57:36 EDT Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 04:53:37 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: jbobau (Was: use "lojbau" not "lojban") X-To: C.J.Fine@bradford.ac.uk X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: Colin: CF> (I prefer jbobau, or lojbybau if I think the recipient CF> is likely to have trouble recognising that). CF> CF> 'lojbau' is 'logji bangu' (logical language - and let's not suppose CF> lo jbobau is that zo'o je'unai) We we're faced with a chicken-egg situation in making the name of the language. We decided to use JCB's metaphor for historic reasons, and I think that logjybangu is therefore a firmly established lujvo for the concept of Lojban modulo my own comments to And on name vs. predicate. I think of jbobau as being more the language of the little Lojbanists that JCB and I have at times heard chittering away in the back of our brains rather than the language that any human being actually speaks, or is likely to speak in the near future. (By chicken and egg situation, I mean that we need to make the word for Lojban before we could come up with a rafsi for it that could be used in making the word. Jboban would be quite self-referential.) Now I admoit that there may be some use in a concept for logical languages in general, or we may want to say that "lojbau" is the broader concept that includes TLI Loglan and all of the other versions of Loglan that have existed, and use jbobau when we want to be more restrictive to specifically the "pure" version of the language. I could live with this, but still feel that most references to the language are still as labels rather than as predicates. So I see 4 concepts that we can have words for: The language as spokne by the little Lojbanists The pure form of the language as it is ikely to enbd up when it has real speakers The broader concept of "loglans" that include the historical Loglan. The concept of a "logical language", which would probably need to have a place talking about what cvharacteristics make it be perceived as being "logical" lojbau/lojban is the third of these jbobau is either the first or second of them or both lojbab