Message-Id: <199309290632.AA11679@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Wed, 29 Sep 1993 16:30:33 +1000
Reply-To: Nick Nicholas <nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Nick Nicholas <nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU>
Subject:      Re: Eaton: You asked for it ...
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
In-Reply-To:  <no.id> from "Jorge LLambias" at Sep 28, 93 06:29:45 pm
Status: RO

To Jorge LLambias respond I thus:

#> fanaticism              (S) fanatismo
#neldu'e (nelci dukse) d1 (d2=nu nelci) n1 n2

dukse is another of those gismu like simxu and mintu, where logically they
are tertanru, but to our NL intuitions, they are seltanru. "over-like",
"trosxati" --- most of us would say duknei.

This word has another connotation of zealotism, which would be rendered by
something like {sarji ke dukse cinmo} or {dukse ke sarji cinmo}

#> participant,participator(G) Teilnehmer          (S) participante, participe
#mimzu'e (cmima zukte) z1=c1 z2 z3 c2
#x1 belongs to a group taking action x2 for purpose x3, group x4

I didn't like this on first sight, but after ten seconds' meditation ---
yeah, it'll do the job.

#> royalist                (G) Ko:nigstreue        (S) realista
#nolnei (nobli nelci)

Not really. More like {ka nobli turni kei sarji} --- and I don't think
we could drop the {kez} rafsi in the lujvo for this.

#> estimable               (F,S) estimable         (G) scha:tzbar
#selpesxau (se pensi xamgu)
#selnelxau (se nelci xamgu)
#I'm using -xau for a lot of -able's. I'm not sure this is right.
#I can't find anything to mean "worthy of, meriting, deserving" etc.
#(Esperanto "-inda") Is there anything for this?

I've sensed the lack of this cncept too. {sinma}, rather than {pensi} or
{nelci} is your seltanru gismu.

#> insuperable             (F) insurmontable (G) unu:bersteigbar (S) insuperable
#selgrernalka'e (se pagre na'e kakne) k1=p2 (k2=nu pagre) p1 p3 p4
#x1 is unable to be passed through by x2 to dest. x3 from origin x4.
#selgrerka'e (se pagre kakne)
#x1 is able to be passed through by x2 ...

I get it; you're using {pagre} in a figurative sense: you "pass through" stages
and difficulties. Not obvious, but I don't see the harm in it. Good placing
of the {na'e}, btw.

#> irruption               (F) irruption   (G) Einbruch    (S) irrupcio'n
#tolcanci (to'e canci) x1 irrupts/appears/materializes in location x2

I'm not sure about this: the dictionaries I've looked up speak of motion
into --- in German, in fact, it means break-in. Let's ask instead how
to say "invade". Nothing comes to mind on my end...

#> patriarchal             (S) patriarcal
#ka nakseltru (nakni se turni)
#ka nakydzerseltru (nakni dzena se turni)

The most useful definition of this term is the modern, feminist one, which
is probably better done by {ka nakni jitro} ({turni} is not what people do
to each other in social interaction).

#> guillotine              (F) ...
#nebterka'a (cnebo te katna)

nebyka'aca'a, maybe? Anything can cut a throat, but a guillotine is an
apparatus.

#> inertia                 (G) Tra:gheit   (S) inercia
#ka sezmuvra'itra (sevzi muvdu ranji tarti)

Or: ka litru na'e cenba

#> intimidate              (F) intimider   (G) einschu:chtern
#some variation of {tepri'a}, {tepygau}, "to scare" in the jvoste

Probably tepri'a tarti

#> snuffle, snivel (vb.)   (F) renifler    (S) gimotear, lloriquear
#kakymli (klaku milxe) m1=k1 (m2=nu klaku) k2 k2

Nah. nazbi sakci, perhaps.

#> spontaneity             (S) espontaneidad
#ka rarna

Or, for another definition of the concept, ka na'e se bapli


#> passerby                (F) passant (n) (G) Passant, Vorbeigehende
#>                         (S) transeunte
#le vazyzdu (va cadzu)

It doesn't leap out the page in appealing to me, but I suppose it will do.

#> mediocre                (F) me'diocre   (G) mittelma:ssig       (S) mediocre
#kampu, nalba'i (na'e banli)

I don't think this is the intended meaning of {kampu} (sounds like a
collocation that wouldn't make it into Lojban), and that's more like {tolba'i}.

#> enviable                (G) beneidenswert       (S)envidiable
#seldjixau (se djica xamgu) x1 x2=d1 (x3=d2) d3
#(This is really one sense of "desirable", I don't know what "enviable" would
# be.)

enviable is close enough to desirable that you needn't appeal to "envy",
which would be {xamgu funca jilra}, or something --- a kind of jealousy,
in any case.

#> mobilize                (F) mobiliser   (S) movilizar
#sezmuvgau (sevzi muvdu gasnu)

Not really. In the sense intended here, it's {ganzu}, or {jemna ganzu}

#> dryness                 (F) se'cheresse (G) Trockenheit (S) sequedad
#ka sudga  (I don't know how to get the metaphorical meaning)

Hm. Me neither.

#> egoism (egotism?)       (F) e'goisme    (G) Selbstsucht (S) egoi'smo
#dudnelkai (dunda nelci ckaji)  generous?
#sezyse'u  (sevzi selfu)  egoist?
#malsezyse'u

Or malseznei, of course. What has generosity to do with ego?

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