Message-Id: <199309060133.AA06767@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Mon, 6 Sep 1993 11:31:46 +1000
Reply-To: Nick Nicholas <nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Nick Nicholas <nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU>
Subject:      Re: possible sumti-raising place structures of the sisku variety
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
In-Reply-To:  <no.id> from "Logical Language Group" at Aug 31, 93 04:32:28 am
Status: RO

To Logical Language Group respond I thus:

#festi waste x1(s) is/are waste product(s) [left to waste] by x2
#(object/event) a 20 (cf. xaksu)

This one looks to me like raising. I weakly favour removing it.

#kanji calculate 'reckon' x1 calculates/reckons/computes x2 [value/state]
#from data x3 by process x4 7e 0 (cf. kancu, jdice)

A value is not really an object, but an abstraction, even if not the same
kind of abstraction as a {ni} clause; so there isn't a real distinction here.

#pante protest x1 protests/objects to/complains about x2
#(object/event/state) to audience x3 with action x4 9c 12 (x4 is an event
#or tu'a quotation)

This too looks a bit like raising. I'd remove it. (You don't protest taxes,
but their imposition on you; you don't protest oppresors, but oppresion.)

#zvati at x1 (object/event) is at/attending/present at x2
#(event/location) 4d 184 [recation for an
#object/activity that is mobile]; (cf. especially stuzi for an
#inherent/inalienable location, jbini, nenri, se varji for physical
#shape, tapla, bliku, kubli, kurfa, cukla)

I can understand how an event can be a {se zvati}, but need it be a {zvati}
as well? I'd remove the event from x1. Or at least I'd like an example
where an event can be at another event, that doesn't sound forced.

*******************************************************************************
 A freshman once observed to me:         Nick Nicholas am I, of Melbourne, Oz.
 On the edge of the Rubicon,             nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au (IRC: nicxjo)
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