Message-Id: <199309021748.AA13929@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Thu, 2 Sep 1993 18:42:17 +0100
Reply-To: ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Mr Andrew Rosta <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: TECH: specifity & definiteness
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
In-Reply-To:  (Your message of Wed,
              01 Sep 93 19:21:23 N.) <9309020925.AA76927@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk>
Status: O

I agree with what Colin has said, but have a further comment on this bit:
> As I mentioned in an early posting, I think
> mi pu terve'u lo plise
> I bought apples
> -spec
> is a little anomalous, and says either that I want
> to emphasise that they really are apples, or that
> I want to ignore their definiteness.

The example is a little anomalous, but only a little. It means
"There is some apple such that I bought it". (Or apples such that
I bought them.) This might be appropriate in a context where
someone acting as my agent had bought the apples for me on
my behalf, but I didn't know which apples had been bought.
A clearer example is:
  Lo prenu baho tankypli "Someone or other has been smoking"
  Le prenu baho tankypli "A certain person has been smoking"
If you said these when walking into a room and smelling smoke,
the second but not the first utterance would imply you knew
who had been smoking. This is not to say that the second
utterance *entails* that you know the identity of the smoker:
you could say "le prenu" not because you know who they are
but because you have constructed some imaginary identity for
them & are thinking of them in this way.
As I mentioned in my previous message, there are some contexts
in which the choice of le/lo is much more significant:
  do ba (coha?) speni le prenu
    "You will marry a certain person"
  do ba (coha?) speni lo prenu
    "You will marry someone or other"
-----
mihelahola. And la.