Message-Id: <199309301347.AA02907@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Thu, 30 Sep 1993 23:43:04 +1000
Reply-To: Nick Nicholas <nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Nick Nicholas <nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU>
Subject:      TECH: Two non-English based lujvo requests
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
Status: RO

If our lujvo are so crash hot, they should be able to cope with concepts
we don't express in a single word in English, but do in other languages,
right?

Well, I'd like someone out there to have a go at a lojbanisation of these
concepts:

1. sensei/majstro

The Japanese term is defined in an article on Japanese honorifics I've just
read (and it didn't really illuminate my Pragmatics essay topic :( ) as
follows:

"Etymologically, it means a person who was 'born earlier', but contemporary
usage confines it to a person who is respectable for his capabilities,
mainly in intellectual work. As a common noun it means primarily 'teacher'
(as in *Sensei ni nari-ta-i* 'I want to be a teacher'), but as a title
it covers not only teachers or professors but also authors, movie directors,
artists, medical doctors, Diet representatives, and so on."

S. I. Harada, "Honorifics", in M. Shibatani (ed.): _Syntax and Semantics 5:
Japanese Generative Grammar_, Academic Press, New York 1976, p. 509.

This reminded me rather strongly of the Esperanto term "Majstro", which is
defined in the _Plena Ilustrita Vortaro_ as:

"1. In the erstwhile guilds, the person who had proved his expertise by
work performed for that specific purpose, was accepted by the other
guild masters as an equal, and was entitled to employ journeymen and
apprentices. 2. A specialist confirmed by a guild or by law (master-builder
etc.) 3. A title
of respect given by disciples to their teacher. (Buddha; Aristotle; Jesus;
Zamenhof) [before the schism, de Beaufront was called by his opponents
"la vicmajstro" --- the deputy Majstro]. 4. A great artist (used especially
of painters). 5. Title of various religious, university or honorary
positions. 6. The highest of the three Freemason ranks in ordinary lodges."

Basically, it's the non-patriarchal meanings of "Master", which are no
longer productive in English due to the predominance of the patriarchal/
dominator connotation. In the 1888 dictionary of the language, it was defined
as "(French) ma^itre (dans sa partie)/ (English) foreman/ (German) Meister/
(Russian) master/ (Polish) majster".

What I'm wondering is, what would a lujvo for "sensei" or "Majstro" (in
the more pertinent of its senses) look like?

2. A closing phrase of "Raiders of the Lost Ark" caught my ears tonight;
it was "Buy you a drink?" In Greek, we would use the verb "kern'w", which
corresponds to the rare English verbs "regale" ("to entertain or refresh
with a choice meal") and "treat" ("to give food, drink [or amusement] to;
to pay the cost of a treat [or entertainment]). It's what you do when
you offer someone sweets at your home (a time-honoured tradition), or
when you buy them food or drink when going out. The latter meaning is
also conveyed by the Australian "shout": "I'll shout you a meal"; "It's
my shout" = "The drinks are on me".

Is the gismu {friti} by itself sufficient to do the job? (I strongly
suspect it is, but wonder if there are any people out there who *aren't*
lujvo minimalists like Mark Shoulson :)

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