From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Fri Oct 15 10:58:28 1993 Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 15 Oct 1993 15:01:03 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 15 Oct 1993 15:00:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199310151900.AA17884@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5137; Fri, 15 Oct 93 14:58:31 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 3116; Fri, 15 Oct 93 15:01:14 EDT Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 14:58:28 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: TEXT: toldi nunsenva X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: <199310151117.AA13246@access.digex.net> from "Colin Fine" at Oct 15, 93 11:53:13 am Status: RO X-Status: mi'e .djan. .i la kolin. cusku di'e > 1) nunpijypa'i > If I hadn't known the story, I would have no idea what to make of > an 'event of wisdom judge'/ As Iain says, that's "prami" not "pajni". I admit that it may not be the best metaphor, and pc (who is one) has a different metaphor buried in TL somewhere, but TL isn't easy to search, so I calqued the Greek version, which probably doesn't really apply to la tcuan,dz. anyhow. > 2) jikau doesn't work. As it stands, it links onto the last 'le du'u'. > You would need a ku'o, but then it will link 'la tcuan,dz' to 'ri' and leave > 'toldi noi' hanging out. You either need 'lo toldi', which is odd as the > remoi terbri of 'du', or recast it as 'gi'i kau', and drop the 'ri'. You > will then need to change the 'noi' in the last line to 'gi'e' (which I prefer > anyway). Slightly clearer than using gi'i kau is to use forethought, allowing > you to repeat the ri/ko'a. Quite right. I originally had ".ijekau", which is ungrammatical in context, and I made a hasty change to it. Also "ri toldi" was a typo for "ri du lo toldi", in parallel with "ri du la tcuan,dz." -- the sequence "ri toldi noi" is totally bogus. > 3) I don't believe 'ri' binds, in which case, several of your 'ri's' > pick out abstractions. Yu may be able to do some fancy footwork with > 'vo'a' and 'le go'i', but I think assigning a KOhA is easier. Right again: I had been forgetting the effect of "le du'u" on "ri". Overall, though, I prefer "ra" here to the more precise "ko'a". Here's my rewrite of your rewrite: toldi nunsenva .i tu'e la tcuan,dz. noi nunpijypa'i cu senva le du'u ra toldi .i ca le nu ra cikna kei ra cusku le se du'u ra na djuno le du'u ge'ikau ra du la tcuan,dz. noi senva le du'u ra toldi gi ra du lo toldi noi senva le du'u ra du la tcuan,dz. tu'u -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban.