From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Sat Oct 30 01:13:13 1993 Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 30 Oct 1993 01:13:13 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Sat, 30 Oct 1993 01:13:05 -0400 Message-Id: <199310300513.AA06511@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3451; Sat, 30 Oct 93 01:10:56 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 2542; Sat, 30 Oct 93 01:13:59 EDT Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1993 15:11:24 +1000 Reply-To: Nick Nicholas Sender: Lojban list From: Nick Nicholas Subject: Re: Bus boys: two nations divided by a common language X-To: lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET X-Cc: Lojban Mailing List To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: <199310291957.AA15154@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> from "Logical Language Group" at Oct 29, 93 03:55:41 pm Status: RO X-Status: To Logical Language Group respond I thus: #ObLojban: # "valporsi gi'e ganai se lidne le xe fanva be fi le drata bangu # pe le gi'uste gi'e se sruri lo sitna lerfu gi jitfa" # is a phrase and, if preceded by its translation into the other language # of the gismu list and surrounded by quotation marks, is false. #(after Douglas Hofstadter) You fiend! You fiend! I was reading Metamagical Themas last night for the first time in ages. I was still non-excited by it, but was a bit surprised to find Dougie has actually made some substantial contributions to the AI debate after all (which should come in handy for my Philosophy essay --- when I write it.) I was also surpised to find Dougie is more or less responsible for the craze of .sig viruses that has swept the net. In any case, there is a gargantuan self-referential story in there by David Moser, which I think would translate well into Lojban, and indeed would deserve publication as the kind of thing Lojbanists like (I doubt getting copyright release would be a problem). Here's the start of it: dei tcita ledei lisri gi'e so'iroi refpagbu le se tcita lisri ni'o dei pamoi le'i jufra pe ledei lisri .i dei remoi le'i jufra .i dei tcita ledei lisri gi'e so'iroi refpagbu le se tcita lisri .i dei jaisepi'o senpi lenu le re lidne jufra cu jinzi vamji .i dei jaisepi'o jungau do fau leda'inu do puzi na'e sanji kei lenu ledei lisri cu sevzi pilno gi'e va'i se pagbu loi jufra noi xusra tu'a leke'a stura je terpli .i dei fanmo le pamoi jufrygri This Is The Title of This Story, Which Is Also Found Several Times in the Story Itself This is the first sentence of this story. This is the second sentence. This is the title of this story, which is also found several times in the story itself. This sentence is questioning the intrinsic value of the first two sentences. This sentence is to inform you, in case you haven't already realised it, that this is a self-referential story, that is, a story containing sentences that refer to their own structure and function. This is a sentence that provides an ending to the first paragraph. %%% %%% %%% %%% %%% %%% %%% %%% %%% %%% %%% %%% %%% non me tenent vincula, non me tenet clavis, % (nsn@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au) quaero mei similes et adjungor pravis. % Nick Nicholas, CogSci victim, --- Archipoeta, _Confessio_. % Univ. of Melbourne, Australia