Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 8 Oct 1993 20:41:25 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Fri, 8 Oct 1993 20:41:21 -0400 Message-Id: <199310090041.AA05336@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0024; Fri, 08 Oct 93 20:39:31 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 4303; Fri, 08 Oct 93 20:41:52 EDT Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 20:38:33 EDT Reply-To: Jorge LLambias Sender: Lojban list From: Jorge LLambias Subject: Re: deleting places X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Fri Oct 8 16:38:33 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Art says: > While I am tempted to digress into the connotation of cliva being > leaving with or without travelling (Is this leaving your > girlfriend), I think it is much more productive to pursue > the native learning issue. Yes, the vehicle place of {cliva} makes it clear that it's a leaving with travelling. As for the native learning, I think I mostly agree. However, whatever "up" means to a child, the dictionary gives the definition of what it means to proficient speakers. Similarly, the definitions in Lojban correspond to what we imagine that a proficient speaker would understand. The day that many fluent speakers exist, this definition may change, but I don't see anything wrong in having tentative definitions from now. From where can we learn the language, other than from those definitions? Jorge