Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 14 Oct 1993 14:59:20 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 14 Oct 1993 14:57:36 -0400 Message-Id: <199310141857.AA19904@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0546; Thu, 14 Oct 93 14:55:41 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 0894; Thu, 14 Oct 93 14:56:36 EDT Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 14:53:24 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: more on fat gismu X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Thu Oct 14 10:53:24 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET OK. John seems to have found the argument on sorcu that I couldn't bring to mind, and I will be sticking with the current place structure unless further convinced. I am inclined to agree that x4 may be a sumti raising out of x3 in cikre, but beleive that wehen I proposed the place structure I had in mind a situation where the x4 was NOT a place of x3. I can't think of it now, and won't argue it. I am more convinced that moving as the result of ones own nature is not the same as the concept "sevzymuvdu" which was how we had originally conceived of rendering the transitive intransitive, hence am leaning more to changing muvdu. lojbab