Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 7 Oct 1993 11:51:24 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 7 Oct 1993 11:51:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199310071551.AA01207@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3400; Thu, 07 Oct 93 11:49:15 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 7474; Thu, 07 Oct 93 11:43:07 EDT Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 11:19:09 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: Lean Lujvo and fat gismu X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch In-Reply-To: <199310062252.AA24561@access.digex.net> from "ucleaar" at Oct 6, 93 11:50:33 pm Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Thu Oct 7 07:19:09 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET mi'e .djan. .i la .and. cusku di'e > Am I misunderstood? I think there is a genuine, semantically > significant distinction between klama and litru, & the underlying > principle of place structures seems to me indispensable: I > don't think the language [would] work if cliva were necessarily > synonymous with klama with an empty destination place. It depends on what is meant by "empty". Using "cliva" means that the speaker does not assert the meaningfulness of there being a destination. > But I also think the klama/cliva/litru trio wastes gismus: > the rare cases where cliva or litru are needed (infinite > motions) could be handled by zihoing off some places > from klama. Logically, yes; almost all instances of {litru}ing and {cliva}ing are also instances of {klama}ing. But pragmatically the emphasis will be different. When I say that I {klama fo} the highway, this entails that my motion is bounded. If I say that I {litru fo} the highway, I suggest unboundedness, whether in fact my motion is bounded or not. > But, as I said, so what: people will just have > to learn a couple of almost entirely unnecessary & useless gismu; > it's not really a problem. The gismu space isn't minimal in any sense. -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban.