Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 13 Oct 1993 06:38:21 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 13 Oct 1993 06:38:18 -0400 Message-Id: <199310131038.AA01578@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3610; Wed, 13 Oct 93 06:36:25 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 4728; Wed, 13 Oct 93 06:39:12 EDT Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 06:36:04 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: TECH: Lean Lujvo and fat gismu X-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Wed Oct 13 02:36:04 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET JL> > As I said in another message, I remove places from a lujvo by declari JL> > irrelevant, generall using "claxu" after a semantic expression of the JL> > to be eliminated. JL> > JL> > lojbab JL> JL> I'm not sure if I understand. Do you mean: JL> JL> xelklacau (xe klama claxu) c1=k1 (c2=k5) k2 k3 k4 JL> JL> x1 goes to x2 from x3 along x4 without any means/vehicle JL> JL> It works, but this doesn't make it irrelevant. It emphasises that JL> there are no means/vehicle. No. lujvo mean what I want them to mean. If my concept is one of irrelevancy, I have used "cau". There is indeed a second interpretation, as you have pointed out, but that may not be what I intended. Now, given the formulaic convention, replace "cau" above with "zi'o" and you have a convention that no longer has 2 interpretations. This solves the problem and gives a much friendlier use for zi'o than bare places. But then, this causes me to re-examoine my opposition to using zi'o directly on the converter, and I now chnage my mind and decide I like "selzi'oklama" better since it puts the focus of the deletion on the term being deleted. What the place structure of selzi'oklama? Since the zi'o is joined to the "sel" first, it is deleted and klama is not converted, so x1 is kl1, x2 is kl3 x3 is kl4, x4 is kl5. lojbab