Return-Path: Received: from kejal-9101.pc by xiron with uucp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0onQuq-0000osC; Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:32 EET Received: from kruuna.helsinki.fi by xiron with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0onQpk-0000osC; Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:27 EET Received: from charon2-gw.pc.Helsinki.FI by kruuna.helsinki.fi with SMTP id AA13615 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 14 Oct 1993 13:24:25 +0200 Received: From HYLKN1/WORKQUEUE2 by charon2-gw.pc.Helsinki.FI via Charon 3.4 with IPX id 100.931014122400.416; 14 Oct 93 12:25:33 +0200 Message-Id: Received: From FINHUTC.hut.fi by charon2-gw.pc.Helsinki.FI via Charon 3.4 with SMTP id 102.931014122352.384; 14 Oct 93 12:24:14 +-02-01 Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2MX) with BSMTP id 7018; Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:24:05 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 7016; Thu, 14 Oct 1993 13:23:58 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9341; Thu, 14 Oct 1993 12:23:20 +0100 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 07:21:17 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: vilva From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: more on fat gismu X-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 695 Lines: 17 You are correct that Loglan/Lojban has never had cau we don't have "causeless" motion. Self-motion, we do have. If people want muvdu to be non-agentive, it can be considered. lebna, dunda, etc are motions in the sense of a transfer occuring, which often implies position. sorcu has the containment place because you need something to determine whether something is part of one sorcu or another. If you store something in one of three piles, is this one sorcu or three. I suspect that "containment" is a bad choice of words, since lo darxi pamei should be a valid value. I'll have to look at cikre off-line, but there was a similar reason based on how we thought it would be used. lojbab