Return-Path: Received: from kejal-9101.pc by xiron with uucp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0oni3G-0000osC; Fri, 15 Oct 93 07:50 EET Received: from kruuna.helsinki.fi by xiron with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0onXtm-0000osC; Thu, 14 Oct 93 20:59 EET Received: from charon2-gw.pc.Helsinki.FI by kruuna.helsinki.fi with SMTP id AA07653 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 14 Oct 1993 20:58:34 +0200 Received: From HYLKN1/WORKQUEUE2 by charon2-gw.pc.Helsinki.FI via Charon 3.4 with IPX id 100.931014195801.352; 14 Oct 93 19:58:40 +0200 Message-Id: Received: From FINHUTC.hut.fi by charon2-gw.pc.Helsinki.FI via Charon 3.4 with SMTP id 102.931014195732.576; 14 Oct 93 19:57:36 +-02-01 Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2MX) with BSMTP id 2296; Thu, 14 Oct 93 20:57:44 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 2295; Thu, 14 Oct 1993 20:57:33 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1952; Thu, 14 Oct 1993 19:56:52 +0100 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 14:53:24 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: vilva From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: more on fat gismu X-Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 645 Lines: 14 OK. John seems to have found the argument on sorcu that I couldn't bring to mind, and I will be sticking with the current place structure unless further convinced. I am inclined to agree that x4 may be a sumti raising out of x3 in cikre, but beleive that wehen I proposed the place structure I had in mind a situation where the x4 was NOT a place of x3. I can't think of it now, and won't argue it. I am more convinced that moving as the result of ones own nature is not the same as the concept "sevzymuvdu" which was how we had originally conceived of rendering the transitive intransitive, hence am leaning more to changing muvdu. lojbab