Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE2-102.931007192939.288@hylkn1.Helsinki.FI>
Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 1993 13:28:22 EDT
Reply-To: Jorge LLambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Sender: vilva
From: Jorge LLambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Lean Lujvo and fat gismu
To: Veijo Vilva <VILVA@viikki21.helsinki.fi>
Content-Length: 2107
Lines: 53

la djan cusku di'e

> It occurred to me this morning that this case is a red herring.  The Moon
> does not {klama} around the Earth, nor {litru} around it; what it really
> does is to {mluni} around it.  Check the place structure:  "mluni" is both
> the noun "satellite" and the verb "to orbit" (unless the orbitee is a star,
> in which case "plini" is more appropriate).

Ok, but it does travel across the sky doesn't it? But not using a vehicle,
so I can't use klama/cliva/litru.

> > or that a body travels
> > with constant velocity if no force is applied to it, or that a bullet
> > takes 3 seconds in going from A to B, and things like that. In these cases
> > you do need some heavy zi'oing. The best I could come up with for this
> > sort of thing is {sezmu'u}, but this is very unsatisfactory.
>
> I agree that "sezmu'u" won't do.  Technically, all such ballistic motions
> are also orbits, so "mluni fo A bi'o B" would work, but I admit that this
> usage is a bit strained.

A tad more than a bit, I would say. Free motion is an orbit only in the
loosest sense of orbit, certainly not around anything, so {mluni} doesn't
help.

> I don't know the answer.  Perhaps "farlu" is best;
> it does not involve a means.

Not for free motion. And even to say "a bullet takes 3 seconds in going from
A to B", I wouldn't want to use {farlu}. (B could even be higher than A, in the
gravity field.)

>   "sezmu'u" sounds more like "locomote": it is
> related to "klama".

As I said, I don't like it either. {klama be fu zi'o} is what I want.

An (un)related issue. The gi'uste says:

muvdu muv     mu'u move
x1 (agent) moves object x2 to destination x3 [away] from origin x4
over path/route x5
[after a muvdu, object is alienated from/no longer at origin];
(cf. rinci, klama, fatri; dunda, benji for movement that does not
necessarily imply alienation from origin)

I don't understand how any of the cited gismu relates to "unalienating"
movement. How do you say "I can't move"? in the sense of being paralysed.
{sezmu'u} speaks of movement from one place to another, not of movement
on the same place.

Jorge