Message-Id: <199310261518.AA05459@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Tue, 26 Oct 1993 11:09:00 EDT
Reply-To: protin@USL.COM
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Art Protin <protin@USL.COM>
Subject:      Re: TECH: (attention Ivan!) demonstrative predicate cmavo needed?
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
Status: RO

John Cowan quotes and comments:

>mi'e .djan. .i la lojbab. cusku di'e
>
>> If I point in some direction and say "ta", people will focus on a
>> 'thing' in that direction.  But if my intent is to call attention to a
>> _relationship_ in that direction, I have no way to clearly do it, UNLESS
>> I shop around for a predicate that forces a predicative place.
>
> This wording simply makes no sense to me, on consideration.  You cannot
> "call attention to a _relationship_ in that direction", because relationships
> do not have spatial locations.  >Events< have spatial locations, and the
> necessary and sufficient way of referring to "an event over there", as Nick
> says, is "tu'a ta".

I missed the beginning of this but these both strike me as being
un-lojban-ish views.  Lojban is not supposed to have nouns, verbs
and adjectives.  When you point in some direction and say "ta",

1) people who speak some other language will wonder what "ta" means
        and why you are pointing,
2) people who have a good understanding of lojban will look there
        and see a scene described by possibly many bridi,
3) children and others who are learning by immersion will form
        one or more hypotheses about the aspect you might be trying
        to draw to their attention.

For someone comfortable with lojban, all descriptions are
relationships and "ta" will be a pointer to place that
has something of interest.  That something may be any part
or parts of many different relationships.  The relationships
of interest will have to selected based on other contextual
information.  In short, there is no reason for a user of
lojban to "focus on a 'thing'", unless the rest of the context
calls for a thing.

    thank you all,
    Arthur Protin


Arthur Protin <protin@usl.com>
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are strictly those of the author and
are in no way indictative of his employer, customers, or this installation.