Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 6 Oct 1993 20:30:48 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 6 Oct 1993 20:29:58 -0400 Message-Id: <199310070029.AA05951@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9418; Wed, 06 Oct 93 20:28:10 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 3184; Wed, 06 Oct 93 20:30:49 EDT Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1993 20:27:35 EDT Reply-To: Jorge LLambias Sender: Lojban list From: Jorge LLambias Subject: Re: Lean Lujvo and fat gismu X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Wed Oct 6 16:27:35 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET la and cusku di'e > But I also think the klama/cliva/litru trio wastes gismus: > the rare cases where cliva or litru are needed (infinite > motions) could be handled by zihoing off some places > from klama. But, as I said, so what: people will just have > to learn a couple of almost entirely unnecessary & useless gismu; > it's not really a problem. I'm not sure this is true. I can imagine that it could be the case that: mi ca ba'o cliva le frasygu'e an simultaneously false that: mi ca ba'o klama zi'o le frasygu'e What I would say is a waste of gismu is to have the vehicle place, which makes them useless to say, for example, that the Moon travels around the Earth, unless it's in some mythological carriage, or that a body travels with constant velocity if no force is applied to it, or that a bullet takes 3 seconds in going from A to B, and things like that. In these cases you do need some heavy zi'oing. The best I could come up with for this sort of thing is {sezmu'u}, but this is very unsatisfactory. co'o mi'e xorxes