Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 7 Oct 1993 13:38:17 -0400 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Thu, 7 Oct 1993 13:38:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199310071738.AA10162@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4128; Thu, 07 Oct 93 13:36:19 EDT Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 9250; Thu, 07 Oct 93 13:30:57 EDT Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 13:28:22 EDT Reply-To: Jorge LLambias Sender: Lojban list From: Jorge LLambias Subject: Re: Lean Lujvo and fat gismu X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Thu Oct 7 09:28:22 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET la djan cusku di'e > It occurred to me this morning that this case is a red herring. The Moon > does not {klama} around the Earth, nor {litru} around it; what it really > does is to {mluni} around it. Check the place structure: "mluni" is both > the noun "satellite" and the verb "to orbit" (unless the orbitee is a star, > in which case "plini" is more appropriate). Ok, but it does travel across the sky doesn't it? But not using a vehicle, so I can't use klama/cliva/litru. > > or that a body travels > > with constant velocity if no force is applied to it, or that a bullet > > takes 3 seconds in going from A to B, and things like that. In these cases > > you do need some heavy zi'oing. The best I could come up with for this > > sort of thing is {sezmu'u}, but this is very unsatisfactory. > > I agree that "sezmu'u" won't do. Technically, all such ballistic motions > are also orbits, so "mluni fo A bi'o B" would work, but I admit that this > usage is a bit strained. A tad more than a bit, I would say. Free motion is an orbit only in the loosest sense of orbit, certainly not around anything, so {mluni} doesn't help. > I don't know the answer. Perhaps "farlu" is best; > it does not involve a means. Not for free motion. And even to say "a bullet takes 3 seconds in going from A to B", I wouldn't want to use {farlu}. (B could even be higher than A, in the gravity field.) > "sezmu'u" sounds more like "locomote": it is > related to "klama". As I said, I don't like it either. {klama be fu zi'o} is what I want. An (un)related issue. The gi'uste says: muvdu muv mu'u move x1 (agent) moves object x2 to destination x3 [away] from origin x4 over path/route x5 [after a muvdu, object is alienated from/no longer at origin]; (cf. rinci, klama, fatri; dunda, benji for movement that does not necessarily imply alienation from origin) I don't understand how any of the cited gismu relates to "unalienating" movement. How do you say "I can't move"? in the sense of being paralysed. {sezmu'u} speaks of movement from one place to another, not of movement on the same place. Jorge