From <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI,@SEARN.SUNET.SE:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Mon Mar 8 17:18:12 2010 Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI,@SEARN.SUNET.SE:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0ox7Fe-0000PYC; Wed, 10 Nov 93 06:33 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2MX) with BSMTP id 1037; Wed, 10 Nov 93 06:34:05 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 1036; Wed, 10 Nov 1993 06:34:05 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0682; Wed, 10 Nov 1993 05:33:18 +0100 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 23:32:17 -0500 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: TECH: re'enai and the emotion classifiers (long) To: protin@usl.com Cc: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu Content-Length: 1792 Lines: 32 AP> While this may be the most frequent misunderstanding of the term, AP> I reject the cultural bias and denounce the ignorance that this AP> "definition" embodies. AP> AP> Atheism is the religious belief that God does not exist. I hate to say it, but this definition is culturally biased in exactly the same way mine was. The belief that "God" does not exist PRESUMES soem definition of God, and the definition that is generally intended is that of the Judeo- Christian god, at least when the term is used by those brought up under Judeo-Christian traditions. My ramblings on various subjects were attempting to define the terms experientially, because dictionary definitions are both culturally biased, and INACCURATE because they do not reflect the interaction between the user's concepts of spirit and religion. It happens that I accept your definitions of spirituality, and I do not by any means intend to suggest that all spirituality must be defined in terms of any particular religious tradition. My claim is that YOUR concept of spirituality will be culturally biased by YOUR concept of the supernatural, i.e. of the subject of spiritual feelings. I claimed further that that concept of the subject of spirituality is strongly constrained by our cultural traditions and upbringing. It is NOT clear to me that all people would find the feelings one gets on an ancient battlefield, in a haunted house, or related to premonitions, would be idnetified as spiritual by all people. John Cowan, for example just posted that he is "tone-deaf" to spiritual feelings. THis would apparently suggest that he either has never felt feelings like you suggest are spiritual, or that he has never identified them as spritual. presumably he would have classed them as something else. lojbab