Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI,@SEARN.SUNET.SE:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0owYGD-0000PYC; Mon, 8 Nov 93 17:12 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2MX) with BSMTP id 1421; Mon, 08 Nov 93 17:12:17 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 1418; Mon, 8 Nov 1993 17:11:58 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6627; Mon, 8 Nov 1993 16:11:05 +0100 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 13:44:49 GMT Reply-To: Colin Fine Sender: Lojban list From: Colin Fine Subject: Re: re'enai To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1878 Lines: 39 Bob answers me: ++++++++> My envisioning of re'enai is a situation where someone says a remark calculated to violate standard religious atmosphere/connotatyions/conventions. I do not mean "sacrilege" as an accusation of someone elses sacrilege. How about Galileo's "It still moves re'enai"? non-spirittual would be re'ecu'i to me - something that simpoly does not register on the rleigious scale. >+++++++++ This seems bizarre to me. Spirituality (which is what I thought re'e meant) has NOT THE SLIGHTEST THING to do with connotations or conventions. I demand a word that expresses that I am speaking about my spiritual or non-spiritual experience. I accept that there might be a case for making 'non-spiritual/materialistic' the mid-point (re'ecu'i), though I find it hard to think of what the negated pole might be (Jorge's suggestion of a mixture of prosaic, materialistic and philistine makes some sort of sense, but I see that as simply 'non-spiritual' on the spiritual axis combined with some other things). Sacrilege is several quite different things, only one of which seems to me to fit re'enai in the slightest: 1) accepting and deliberately perverting the spiritual nature of something (eg the Black Mass - re'evu'enai perhaps? - but it is still very definitely re'e) 2) countering teaching or dogma that is attached to religious belief (eg Galileo. I accept that some of his critics might have regarded his activities as re'enai, but that is because they would see it as anti-spiritual, not because it was simply counter to the Church's teachings. The person doing the countering is unlikely to want to position himself on the re'e axis at all) 3) cynical or cruel misapplication or travesty of matters which are of spiritual significance to others. This meaning indeed contains re'enai, but it contains other things as well - probably uunai Colin