Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI,@SEARN.SUNET.SE:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0ouq2m-0000PaC; Wed, 3 Nov 93 23:47 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2MX) with BSMTP id 6454; Wed, 03 Nov 93 23:47:26 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 6453; Wed, 3 Nov 1993 23:47:26 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0466; Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:46:40 +0100 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 09:56:00 EST Reply-To: protin%USL.COM@FINHUTC.hut.fi Sender: Lojban list From: Art Protin Subject: TECH: more thoughts on zi'o X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1728 Lines: 48 lojbab comments: . . . > These in themselves look like the[y] support the Lojban design, but > then a couple of exercises in the Russian textbook tonight made > me think twice. How do we express a statement like "They often > walk through the park", where "they" refers to people who aren;t > necessarily walking together even once, much less "often". For > these people, the route has a common general description, and we > could just put "le panka" in the route place. But we are stretching > things,to do this, since none of the people has the same exact route, > and indeed the people may not have the same route each time they > individually walk through the park. . . . I believe that the problem is a carry-over from Noun-Verb-etc training. I invite you all to consider the translations of The collection of paths through the park are often traveled over walkingly by some collection of people, from origins outside the park to destinations outside the park. I expect that while this English is awkward and much more difficult with which to deal, a lojban/loglan translation should be very comfortable especially when the destinations and origins are elided (they are articulated here to prove that they do exist). (Of course, someone should do the translation with them spelled out to complete the proof.) This is not proof that klama is all we want, just further indication that, without better explanation of the distinctions, klama is all that is needed. thank you, Art Protin Arthur Protin STANDARD DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are strictly those of the author and are in no way indictative of his employer, customers, or this installation.