Message-Id: <m0owfwh-0000PYC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Mon, 8 Nov 1993 18:20:32 EST
Reply-To:     Jorge LLambias <jorge%PHYAST.PITT.EDU@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         Jorge LLambias <jorge%PHYAST.PITT.EDU@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
Subject:      Re: more Eaton, anyone?
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 4520
Lines: 160

la nitcion cpedu le pinka

> #customhouse officer     (F) douanier    (G) Zo:llner, Zollbeamte
> #                        (S) aduanaero
>
> This is an import tax official: "import" cteki kurji. "import" is bartu gugde
> krasi benji. "krasi" is OK for source, but I can see no corresponding word for
> goal. I propose "fanmo": export would then be bartu gugde fanmo benji. A
 single
> word for "douanier" would be bargu'ekrabe'itekykurji

I think you need more glue to hold that monster together.

> #improvise               (S) improvisar
> skucabyfi'i (cusku cabna finti)

I don't like this one. It's too restricted.
I'd say something like

placaurzu'e (se platu claxu zukte)

Of course, it would be nicer if {platu} was non-agentive.
Also maybe

sukpla (suksa platu)

> #setting (n)(of sun, etc.)       (F) coucher (n) (G) Untergang   (S) fondo
> nu canci

I really don't see what "fondo" is doing here. The intersection of "fondo"
and "setting" gives to me something like "background".

> #expulsion               (S) expulsio'n
> nu livbai

It can also mean
nu baryre'o (barti renro)

> #idealism                (S) idealismo
> selkri stodi tarti

That's more like credulous. Maybe
pa'ercumkri (nu prane cumki krici)

> #tablecloth              (F) nappe       (G) Tischtuch   (S) mantel
> jubme bukpu (jbubu'u)

I prefer
jubgai/jbugai (jubme gacri)

> #sortie (military)       (F) sortie      (G) Ausfall     (S) salida
> nu guntygunta

Why not?

> #frivolity               (G) Leichtsinnigkeit
> #                        (S) ligereza, devaneo, liviandad
> #(all 3 Spanish words are listed as much more frequent than the English;
> #is there a distinction, Jorge??)

ligereza also means swiftness, and liviandad means lightness, I guess that's
why they are more frequent. I would never use devaneo, and I don't know
what happened to frivolidad.

> ka toljunri

> #penetration             (G) Durchdringung       (S) penetracio'n
> nu setca

or {nu pagre}

> #predisposed, predispose (F) disposer (d')avance, pre'disposer
> #                        (G) veranlagt   (S)predispuesto
>
> This is the same as inclined, which both Jorge and I have long tried to
> translate succinctly into Lojban, since it is a core concept in Esperanto
> (-ema).

predisposed could be sth like {bredi}. In some cases {nelci} works for -ema,
but it is not quite the same thing.

> #armpit                  (F) aisselle    (G) Achselho:hle        (S) axila
> janco cnita

or {janco nenri}

> #candidacy               (S) candidatura
> ka selcuxydji (weak, I know)

{tercuxcmi} (te cuxna cnima) for candidate?

> #estuary                 (G) Fo:rde      (S) ria
> rirxe fanmo (rirxe moklu has been used)

{rirxe ganxo} seems more appropriate.

> #mobility                (F) mobilite'   (G) Beweglichkeit
> #                        (S) flexibilidad
> ka ka'e se muvdu

ka ka'e muvdu, if muvdu was de-agentized.

> #anonymous               (S) ano'nimo
> nalseljunselfi'i

seznalja'o (sevzi na'e jarco)

> #dreamer                 (F) re'veur     (G) Tra:umer    (S) son~ador
> #        (likewise this one and lo senva)
> senva tarti, then

Then Lojban doesn't distinguish, like Esperanto (and French) between
"revi" and "songxi"?

> #optimism                (S) optimismo
> pacna tarti

That's not optimism. {xamgu pacna tarti}, if {pacna} meant "expect".
Nobody answered what the expected likeliness has to do with "hope". I think
pacna should be "expect" instead. This is what the gi'uste says:

pacna         pa'a hope
x1 hopes/wishes for/desires x2 (event), expected likeliness x3 (0-1);
x1 hopes that x2 happens   9d  60    (cf. djica)

> #Peruvian (adj)          (S) peruano
> natmrperu

I don't like le'avla, but I think the stress _has_ to fall on the u.
Maybe natmrperu,o

> #urgency                 (G) Eile        (S) urgencia
> ka clira sarcu

cabna sarcu

> #vice-president          (S) vicepresidente
> vipsi jatna

jatna vipsi  :)

> #irreparable             (G) unheilbar   (S) irremediable
> na'eka'e se cikre

selcikrynalka'e

> > (I am presuming that the Spanish is helpful to Jorge,

It is especially helpful when the words have multiple meanings, in English
or Spanish, or both. Usually the intersection reduces the scope. I don't
get anything from the German, sometimes something from the French,
probably only worth it if the word has a different root.

> > especially for some of these really obscure words - never heard of
> > "brushwood" or "hussar" myself).

You don't see many of them around anymore :)


Jorge