Message-Id: <199311081517.AA03999@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Tue, 9 Nov 1993 02:12:20 +1100
Reply-To: Nick Nicholas <nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: Nick Nicholas <nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU>
Subject:      Re: more Eaton, anyone?
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
In-Reply-To:  <199310050609.AA07448@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> from "Logical Language               Group" at Oct 5, 93 02:06:11 am
Status: RO

To Logical Language Group respond I thus:

#Here are 4 more pages of Eaton

And they are impossible! This is my attempt (given that permission has just
been turned off for Nethack here, I've little else to do this time of the
night. Except sleep. And who needs that?)

#avenger                 (G) Ra:cher     (S) vengador
venfu

#customhouse officer     (F) douanier    (G) Zo:llner, Zollbeamte
#                        (S) aduanaero

This is an import tax official: "import" cteki kurji. "import" is bartu gugde
krasi benji. "krasi" is OK for source, but I can see no corresponding word for
goal. I propose "fanmo": export would then be bartu gugde fanmo benji. A single
word for "douanier" would be bargu'ekrabe'itekykurji

#improvise               (S) improvisar

skucabyfi'i (cusku cabna finti)

#inkwell                 (F) encrier     (G) Tintenfass  (S) tintero

ximvau

#setting (n)(of sun, etc.)       (F) coucher (n) (G) Untergang   (S) fondo

nu canci

#specify                 (S) especificar

tecxu'a --- steci xusra, or tilski --- tcila skicu. I suspect the former is a
bad translation.

#unchangeable, immutable (S) inmutable

nalcenba

#woodwork                (F) boiserie    (G) Ta:felung
#                        (S) entablado, maderamen

Panelling is the translation for the French and German. Hm. Not mudri nilce,
because that's not doors and walls. mudri dinjypau?

#accusative              (S) accusative

What is a case? a sumti klesi perhaps? If so, this is a tolgasnu sumkle, to
the first approximation

#adverb                  (S) adverbio

Ick. selbri seltanru?

#Belgian                 (F) belge, flamand (thereby suggesting a distinct
#        concept (Flemish)

natmrbelje, natmrbelgi,e

#bookseller              (S) librero

cukta vencu

#brutality               (F) brutalite'  (G) Roheit

ka kusru

#cartridge               (F) cartouche   (G) Patrone     (S) cartucho

sabji tanxe, for its most general meaning

#expulsion               (S) expulsio'n

nu livbai

#idealism                (S) idealismo

selkri stodi tarti

#indiscretion, imprudence (S) imprudencia        (G) Taktlosigkeit

ka xlali ke jikca jdice

#innate                  (S) innato

jinzi

#insurgent (n)           (F) insurge' (n)        (G) Aufsta:ndische
#                        (S) insurgente, insurrecto

turni damba

#islander                (S) insular, islen~o

daplu xabju

#Jesuit                  (S) jesuita

jdaprenrxiesu,ita

#multiplicity            (S) multiplicidad       (G) Mannigfaltigkeit

ka vrici

#obelisk                 (S) obelisco

jesni rokci

#ostentation             (G) Gepra:nge   (S) ostentacio'n

mabla ke jarco tarti

#pigeonhole              (S) casier      (G) Fach        (S) encasillado

pelji vasru selci, dacru

#realist                 (S) relaista

tcini tinbe tarti

#upstart                 (F) parvenu(-e) (n)     (G) Emporko:mmling
#                        (S) advenedizo

mabla ke suksa nobli (Parvenues are a class phenomenon, and it is not their
new riches that is begrudged them but their not fitting a class role. I
suggest nobli be expanded in meaning to something useful: not just aristocrats
and such past relics, but the upper classes in general.

#affected                (F) affecte', affecter, manie're (G) affektiert
#                        (S) artificioso

mabla ke nalfadni tarti. No, that's wierd. maljgi ke nalfadni tarti, perhaps.

#garlic                  (F) ail         (S) ajo         (G) Knoblauch

slunrxalio (alium)

#tablecloth              (F) nappe       (G) Tischtuch   (S) mantel

jubme bukpu (jbubu'u)

#administrative          (G) Verwaltungs-        (S) administrativo

ganzu jitro ckaji

#aggressor               (S) agresor

gunta, bradi

#billion                 (F) milliard

gigdo

#neatness                (F) nettete'    (G) Sauberkeit  (S) esmero, limpieza

ka cnici

#sceptic (adj)           (G) skeptisch, ungla:ubig       (S) esce'ptico

senpi tarti, senpi

#shorthand, stenography  (G) Stenographie        (S) taquigrafia

nu sutra ciska

#sortie (military)       (F) sortie      (G) Ausfall     (S) salida

nu guntygunta

#stupor                  (F) stupeur     (G) beta:ubung
#                        (S) estupefaccio'n, estupor

selcfipu cando

#undecided               (G) unentschieden       (S) indeciso

naljdice

#cipher(vb)              (S) cifrar

kanji; mifra gasnu

#ermine                  (S) armin~o

skaprxermina

#expansive               (S) expansivo

ganra, barda

#frivolity               (G) Leichtsinnigkeit
#                        (S) ligereza, devaneo, liviandad
#(all 3 Spanish words are listed as much more frequent than the English;
#is there a distinction, Jorge??)

ka toljunri

#generalize              (S) generalizar

suctygau

#geometric               (S) geome'trico

geometry is tarmi saske, or tarmi cmaci

#inexpressible, ineffable        (F) indicible   (G) unsa:glich
#                        (S) inefable, indecible

ka ka'e selsku kei bancu

#penetration             (G) Durchdringung       (S) penetracio'n

nu setca

#predisposed, predispose (F) disposer (d')avance, pre'disposer
#                        (G) veranlagt   (S)predispuesto

This is the same as inclined, which both Jorge and I have long tried to
translate succinctly into Lojban, since it is a core concept in Esperanto
(-ema).

#psychological           (S) psicolo'gico

The target of study of psychology, the psyche, is le menli, so this is menli
ckaji, menkai

#stiffness, rigidity     (F) raideur     (G) Starre      (S) rigidez

ka tinsa

#syndicate               (S) sindicado   (F) syndicat
#                        (I think a culturally neutral word for "Mafia"
#                        would be in order, given that the term is used in
 Russia
#                        for the organized criminals, with no suggestion of
#                        Italian background.  Also perhaps one for kids' gangs
#                        or "crews" moth criminal and non-criminal
#                        (i.e. Boy Scouts ???)

Syndicate actually primarily refers to labour unions, I'd imagine, which is
gunka terganzu. We already have bende for the latter purpose you suggest.
zekri terganzu would do for a Mafia.

#arcade                  (G) Laube, Laubengang   (S) arcada

bargu drudi pluta

#armpit                  (F) aisselle    (G) Achselho:hle        (S) axila

janco cnita

#barrenness, sterility   (G) Unfruchtbarkeit     (S) esterilidad

ka tolferti

#candidacy               (S) candidatura

ka selcuxydji (weak, I know)

#crater                  (S) cra'ter

"meteor" kevna; "meteor" is kensa rokci. kesroike'a. For volcanoes, pojma'ake'a.
As a generalisation, dertu brabolke'a

#diplomacy               (S) diplomacia

jansu ciste

#estuary                 (G) Fo:rde      (S) ria

rirxe fanmo (rirxe moklu has been used)

#hussar                  (F) hussard     (G) Husar       (S) hu'sar

soncrxusara, xirsoi (light cavalry)

#impertinence            (F) impertinence        (G) Frechheit, Unverfrorenheit

jikca maldarsi

#intuition               (G) Eingebung   (S) intuicio'n

jijnu

#mobility                (F) mobilite'   (G) Beweglichkeit
#                        (S) flexibilidad

ka ka'e se muvdu

#phoenix                 (S) fe'nix

cipnrfoinike, cridrfoinike

#superhuman              (G) u:bermenschlich     (S) sobrehumano

remna se kakne bancu

#trellis                 (F) espalier    (G) Spalier     (S) enrejado

greku

#volt  (needs a lujvo)

I suspect it needs a le'avla.

#attorney-general        (G) Staatsanwalt        (S) procurador general

ralju ke flalu kurji

#anonymous               (S) ano'nimo

nalseljunselfi'i

#archipelago             (S) archipielgo

daplu girzu

#bodice                  (F) corsage     (G) Mieder      (S) jubo'n

jarki skori creka (though sensibly this should be a le'avla)

#collective              (S) colectivo

girzu piromei ckaji

#composer                (G) Komponist   (S) compositor

zgifi'i

#conjugal                (G) ehelich     (S) conyugal

simspeni ckaji

#infinity                (S) infinidad

cinmi

#jurisprudence           (G) Rechtspflege        (S) jurisprudencia

flalu saske

#pedant                  (S) pedante

mabla ke tcila jundi

#setting (adj)           (F) couchant    (S) ponienente  (G) untergehen

canci (this is sunset again, right?)

#in shorthand            (G) stenographisch

seke sutra ciska

#thinker                 (F) penseur     (G) Denker      (S) pensador
#        (I think that this is something more than merely lo pensi)

banli pensi? pensi gunka?

#biblical                (S) biblico

saurxebro; jegvycku ckaji

#contradictory           (G) widersprechend      (S) contradictorio

simnatfe. Which btw introduces an engrained ambivalence in Lojban: do sentences
refute, or only their utterers? They're two distinct thematic roles (instrument
and agent), but they're so often conflated in natural language, I think
Lojban is a bit foolhardy to counter this tendency, as it does.

#dreamer                 (F) re'veur     (G) Tra:umer    (S) son~ador
#        (likewise this one and lo senva)

senva tarti, then

#flexibility             (F) souplesse   (G) Schmiegsamkeit      (S)
 flexibilidad

ka to'e tisna

#optimism                (S) optimismo

pacna tarti

#proscribe               (G) a:chten     (S) proscribir

to'e curmi

#reconstitute            (G) erneue(r)n  (S) reconstituir, reconstruir

The German is "renew; restore; renovate". It's not cnino zbasu, since that's
building fresh, not afresh. krefu zbasu, I suppose.

#applicable              (G) anwendbar   (S) aplicable, extensivo

ka'e se pilno lenu...

#brushwood               (F) broussaille (G) Untewrholz  (S) maleza

cmatricu

#idyll                   (S) idilio

I guess the Eaton texts were culled from the purple prose of the day.
pluka tcini. No need to be as purple.

#Musselman (i.e. Moslem) (S) musulma'n

muslo

#Peruvian (adj)          (S) peruano

natmrperu

#refractory              (F) re'fractaire        (G) wiederspenstig
#                        (S) reacio, refractario

xarnu; jai nandu. I'd never heard of this word; the Eaton translators seem
to have gone out of their way to be recherche...

#urgency                 (G) Eile        (S) urgencia

ka clira sarcu

#vice-president          (S) vicepresidente

vipsi jatna

#impetuosity             (G) Ungestu:m   (S) impetu

ka suksa tarti

#incompatible            (G) unvereinbar (S) incompatible

na'e simymapti

#irreparable             (G) unheilbar   (S) irremediable

na'eka'e se cikre

#I may have to
#get more selective about adding other-language translation, so I need to
#ask whether people are ever getting anything out of the French or
#German.

Occasionally --- four or five times per post.

Others' comments are solicited.

===
Momenton senpretende paseman mi retenis kaj #  NICK NICHOLAS.  Melbourne Uni,
   kultis kvazaux                           &  Australia. Now with moustache.
      senhorlogxan elizeon                  #     nsn@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au
         (Dume:                             &    >nsn@krang.vis.mu.oz.au<
[Victor Sadler, _Memkritiko_ 90]            #     nsn@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au