Message-Id: <199311032202.AA06600@eli.CS.YALE.EDU>
Date:         Wed, 3 Nov 1993 13:52:13 EST
Reply-To: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@GRACKLE.STOCKBRIDGE.MA.US>
Sender: Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU>
From: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@GRACKLE.STOCKBRIDGE.MA.US>
Subject:      Re: TECH: more thoughts on zi'o
To: Erik Rauch <rauch>
In-Reply-To:  <9311031327.AA05744@albert.gnu.ai.mit.edu> (message from Richard               Kennaway on Wed, 3 Nov 1993 13:30:12 GMT)
Status: RO

    ... If a relation like that which "klama" names is taken to be an
    atomic concept, that either holds between a tuple of things --
    including a destination -- or does not, then zi'o makes no sense.
    ...

    How does one set about deciding whether it is meaningful to zi'o,
    say, the first place of klama?  Or all five?

The same way any other *new* word become comes defined.  I think of
{zi'o} as an ad hoc method to define new predicates.  You could do the
same thing with a borrowing or nonce creation; the advantage of using
a pre-existing predication is that it provides your listener with a
memory hook.  This may help your listener to figure out what you mean.
(As a practical matter, you yourself may be the listener: you may be
attempting to invent a new concept by working from existing concepts.)
Presumably, if you do come up with a frequently-used new predication,
you won't continue to use an existing predicate with zi'o, but will
construct a new one.

Consider the predicate P(a, b, c, d, e)

    where P is a relationship involving movement/travel/coming/going and

    a   focal entity

    b   destination

    c   origin

    d   route

    e   means

    A means, a route, an origin, a destination, a focal entity are all
    part of a relationship involving movement/travel/coming/going.

Suppose you come up with the notion that destination and origin are
irrelevant.  You can produce a new predicate P'(a, zi'o, zi'o, d, e)

    where P' is a relationship involving movement/travel/coming/going (as
    before) and

    a   focal entity

    b   [removed]

    c   [removed]

    d   route

    e   means

    A means, a route, a focal entity are all part of a relationship
    involving movement/travel/coming/going.

Try it out this new predicate.  It seems useful.  Create a new brivla.
(As it happens, this `new' predication already exists as a Lojban
gismu, so you don't have to invent it.)

    klama     kla      come
                x1 comes/goes to destination x2 from origin x3
                via route x4 using means/vehicle x5

    litru         li'u travel
                x1 travels via route x2 using means/vehicle x3;


BAI enables you to add places.
Lujvo-making  enables you to add, remove, and/or change places.
zi'o enables you to remove places.

This set of features looks symmetrical and exhaustive to me.

    Robert J. Chassell               bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu
    Rattlesnake Mountain Road        bob@grackle.stockbridge.ma.us
    Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA   (413) 298-4725