Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 3 Nov 1993 05:02:30 -0500 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Wed, 3 Nov 1993 05:02:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199311031002.AA08040@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7995; Wed, 03 Nov 93 05:02:19 EST Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 8022; Wed, 03 Nov 93 05:02:03 EDT Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 10:00:33 GMT Reply-To: Colin Fine Sender: Lojban list From: Colin Fine Subject: Re: TECH: more thoughts on zi'o To: Erik Rauch Status: RO X-Status: X-From-Space-Date: Wed Nov 3 10:00:33 1993 X-From-Space-Address: @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET I have not fully assimilated your argument, Bob, and I may find I agree with it. But I have an answer to part of it: +++++++> But by this analogy it IS possible to think of a "maker-less" zbasu usage. Isee a whole bunch of artifacts and I say that they are se zbasu. But of course they are not necessarily se zbasu be pada (made by one individual) and they are not necessarily made from the same or similar materials, either, so ther emay be no description that can express the x3 place of zbasu either. >+++++ Surely this is an archetypical use for masses? Even if they are not se zbasu be pada, they are se zbasu lei broda (specifically se zbasu lei zbasu) va'i there will always be a description that can express whichever place: a massified description, or a joi-connection of descriptions. Colin