From @YaleVM.YCC.YALE.EDU:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET Mon Dec 6 09:58:00 1993 Received: from ELI.CS.YALE.EDU by NEBULA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 6 Dec 1993 15:09:05 -0500 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by eli.CS.YALE.EDU via SMTP; Mon, 6 Dec 1993 14:44:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199312061944.AA06090@eli.CS.YALE.EDU> Received: from CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7839; Mon, 06 Dec 93 15:07:43 EST Received: from CUVMB.COLUMBIA.EDU by CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Mailer R2.07) with BSMTP id 2700; Mon, 06 Dec 93 15:07:20 EDT Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 14:58:00 EST Reply-To: protin@USL.COM Sender: Lojban list From: Art Protin Subject: Re: If I were King... (fwd) To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu Status: RO X-Status: Folks, John Cowan quotes James Jennings and comments >> >> So how do I say "If I were King" in a way that means what normal >> people usually mean? >> >> hue Djeimz > mi'e djeimyz. > > I believe that this question is a serious one that must be confronted > head-on; no mere attitudinal wafflings about "da'i = subjunctive" will > resolve it. I have at present no ideas (I also have at present a > nasty head cold), but the assembled (or disassembled) Lojbanists > undoubtedly do. Have at, please. > Yes, I too have been bothered by the enslavement to a single logic and specifically this particular problem with this particular logic. (Yes there are many possible logics. What I mean (& I suspect others mean) by "If I were president, I would ..." is a special case meaning "give me the power and I will ..." and is closely related to the more general notion of construct a universe where "I am president" and a derivative of that change would be "I would ...". While it is not necessary to change the meaning of "If X, then Y" in English, (or even embrace an alternatively formulated logic) it is very important to be able to easily express the claim that "Y can be proved given the hypothesis X". This construct should be offered to lojbani as a better way to say what they mean. So sayeth the radical. thank you all, Art Protin Arthur Protin STANDARD DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are strictly those of the author and are in no way indictative of his employer, customers, or this installation.