Message-Id: <m0p7LMm-0000PYC@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Wed, 8 Dec 1993 04:38:00 -0500
Reply-To:     Logical Language Group <lojbab%ACCESS.DIGEX.NET@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         Logical Language Group <lojbab%ACCESS.DIGEX.NET@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
Subject:      gismu comments - ckana
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 1313
Lines: 33

John Cowan:
>> ckana bed x1 is a bed/pallet of material x2 for holding/supporting x3
>> (person/object/event) an 111 (cf. kamju, kicne, nilce, palta, cpana,
>> vreta, jubme, stizu, matci, zbepi)
>
>I don't understand "event" here.  How can an event be supported by a bed?

Nick:
>Cleverness about copulation aside, beds support *people* doing things, not
>the things themselves. Kill the event.

And:
>Better to spare the event, and change wording to:
>
>   x1 is a bed of material x2 & is locus of (person/object/event) x3
>
>In any case, if an event can have a location then I don't see why
>it can't be supported.

And shared my reasoning, and the English dictionary definition of 'bed'
(not the piece of furniture necessarily), and the similar 'platform'
(tsina) clearly allow events to be upon them (for that matter, cpana
presumably can have an x1 event, and sarji an x2 event).  I think in
these cases, there is not necessarily a raising - you can support a
thing regardless of its activities, or you can support a specific
activity of that thing.

The same reasoning applied to zvati, and though it wasn't discussed,
apparently also to stuzi. zbepi was the only other gismu that had a
thing supported that was ambiguous as to whether it could be an event,
and I gave it the broader usage as well.

lojbab