Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0p6mEg-0000PbC; Mon, 6 Dec 93 22:08 EET Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2MX) with BSMTP id 5320; Mon, 06 Dec 93 22:09:01 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5318; Mon, 6 Dec 1993 22:08:59 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3398; Mon, 6 Dec 1993 21:08:00 +0100 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 14:58:00 EST Reply-To: protin%USL.COM@FINHUTC.hut.fi Sender: Lojban list From: Art Protin Subject: Re: If I were King... (fwd) X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1544 Lines: 39 Folks, John Cowan quotes James Jennings and comments >> >> So how do I say "If I were King" in a way that means what normal >> people usually mean? >> >> hue Djeimz > mi'e djeimyz. > > I believe that this question is a serious one that must be confronted > head-on; no mere attitudinal wafflings about "da'i = subjunctive" will > resolve it. I have at present no ideas (I also have at present a > nasty head cold), but the assembled (or disassembled) Lojbanists > undoubtedly do. Have at, please. > Yes, I too have been bothered by the enslavement to a single logic and specifically this particular problem with this particular logic. (Yes there are many possible logics. What I mean (& I suspect others mean) by "If I were president, I would ..." is a special case meaning "give me the power and I will ..." and is closely related to the more general notion of construct a universe where "I am president" and a derivative of that change would be "I would ...". While it is not necessary to change the meaning of "If X, then Y" in English, (or even embrace an alternatively formulated logic) it is very important to be able to easily express the claim that "Y can be proved given the hypothesis X". This construct should be offered to lojbani as a better way to say what they mean. So sayeth the radical. thank you all, Art Protin Arthur Protin STANDARD DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are strictly those of the author and are in no way indictative of his employer, customers, or this installation.