Message-Id: <m0pUjZf-0000Q9C@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Thu, 10 Feb 1994 16:54:25 EST
Reply-To:     jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         Jorge Llambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Translation of pemcrsoneto
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 2933
Lines: 97

uicai da pu tcidu le mi pemci
i uicai ki'e doi kolin

>
> Here is my attempt to translate it (as a sonnet, so it's not
> literal)

I like your translations much better than all that Jboglish that
is so often perpetrated upon us :) And this one, with rhymes and
all, is exceptional.

>
> A portly person said to me "I hear
> a rose's name is but a figment pulled
> from one lone garden flower, lulled
> and studied by the other flowers there.

Well, it wasn't just the other flowers, but all living things,
but that's not too bad, since the flowers could metaphorically
represent the {ro pudji'e}


> "And throughout every gale that ever ran
> Or runs or will yet run it never changes",
> He added, as he gobbled all the strangers
> In the restaurant,  lolled on a divan.
>
> "But yet again a name,  whatever bear't,
> Cannot be understood by manUs intelli-
> Gence until the spirit be prepared"

{di} here has to take you back to the previous {di}, the tender
of the garden. (And if you knew some Esperanto, it might suggest
Di', (God) but that's not required :)

>
> Continued then this portly diner who
> Appears to wax aye greater in the belly
> And promises at last he'll explain you.
>

> Notes
> -----
> I had some difficulties with some bits:
> I don't understand "noi se sructa
>         co tolcikna ro le drata pudji'e';
> In the first place I don't know what the remoi
> terbridi of tolcikna might be (cikna is a
> selbri befi pada), so I don't know what
> role the other garden life plays.

{noi se sructa co tolcikna ro le drata pudji'e}, I thought was a
roundabout way of saying {noi tolcikna se sructa ro le drata pudji'e}
so you wouldn't need a remoi terbridi for tolcikna,
but I guess I was wrong.

So there's no way to attach a sumti to a
{co} modified selbri?


> I'm not
> at all sure as to the meaning of "sructa"
> either.

sructa: sruri catlu (surrounds+looks at)

> Secondly, I can only make out "tergusta" to
> be the clients of the restaurant, and have
> translated it thus. I this really what you meant?

I meant {selgusta}, because the gi'uste I used had another place
for the location, so the food was in x3. But I might consider
leaving it as {tergusta}, let them diners be eaten. :)
Of course, a {selgusta} is not something directly edible either,
but...  I used "le" !!!  :)

> Thirdly, "tedre'a" is head-human. I construed it
> as "human-head" (really "human-mind") - I don't
> know if you meant anything else.

{tedre'a} is {terdi remna}, an earth-human

>
> The whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Well, it's only my second poem, in lojban or in any language, so
I need to practice.

Thanks a lot for the translation. I was starting to think that
nobody had read it.

If you try the second sonnet, beware that {mapso'e} should be
{maprai}, the confusion came because cmavo {so'e} means 'most',
which would be wrong anyway. (mi ckeji) I can't fix it now,
because it won't rhyme :(

Jorge