Message-Id: <m0pe2c7-0000R2C@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Mon, 7 Mar 1994 20:18:35 EST
Reply-To:     jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         Jorge Llambias <jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A vitz for lei lojbo
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 3425
Lines: 117

la matius cusku di'e

> la xorxes. to jambias. xu toi cusku lo'u<*
>
> i le mi lu'a lei lojbo
>
> *>le'u goi ko'a

i jo'a zo jambi,as .a zo cambi,as drani fo mi
i ui
i pau do djuno ki'u ma le du'u drani bacru zoi sy. Ll .sy fo le gento

> .i.uinai! mi na kakne lenu mi fanva ko'a

oiro'a mi srera

>.i mi ko'a te
> preti lu<< ko'a cu se djica se smuni lu<< mi po'u pa lei lojbo >>li'u ?ji
> lu<< mi po'u lu'a lei lojbo >>li'u ?ji zo zo'e >>li'u

.a

> .i mi cusku zoi glibau.
>
> Ouch... My head hurts (zo'o)...  That took far longer than I expected and
> I'm not even sure that it's correct.  Should the various answer options be
> unquoted?  Should the phrase being asked about be unquoted (i.e. la'eko'a)?

Looks correct to me. The only problem is that you are asking two questions
at the same time, because you're using two {ji}s, but it's clear what
you mean.

> In case I've messed it up so much that it's not understandable, a free
> translation is:
>
> Jorge (ZHambias?)

Yes! How did you know that we pronounce "Ll" like that in Argentina?
Unfortunately, ASCII doesn't allow the accent on the "i". It's
either {jambi,as} or {cambi,as}

> said: "i le mi lu'a lei lojbo".

Which is ungrammatical :(

> Unfortunately I couldn't
> translate this.  Should it mean "I as a Lojbani", or "We the members of the
> Lojbani community", or something else?

I intended "I as one of lei lojbo", in answer to the Subject line.

> Further questions resulting from this are:
>
> 1.  When Jorge reuses "mi" later on, e.g.:
>
> JL: i mi pu jimpe le du'u le prije le sazri cu mintu
>
>     to mean himself, assuming that the first "mi" meant all of us, how would
>     "mi" be reassigned to just mean him?  (This would be a common thing to
>     do for instance in a letter relating family news).

You may assume safely that {mi} refers to "I", at least when I use it,
otherwise it has to be clear that I'm speaking in the name of a group.
To make it explicit you can use {mi'e}:

mi mi'e xorxes li'o

or

mi mi'e lei lojbo li'o

>
> 2.  At the end, when he uses "ma'a":
>
> JL: i pe'u do'u ko ca'o finti bau le ma'a bangu
>
>     if "mi" was intended to mean "lu'a lei lojbo", should this just be "lemi
>     bangu"?

{lu'a lei lojbo} can refer to one individual, as I intended in this case.
Even if I had used the right grammar, I wouldn't have used {pa}.
In this case, it couldn't be {le mi bangu}, because I was explicitly
including my interlocutor, la djan. Also, {mi'o} was not enough, because
I was including others for which I was not speaking.
>
> (My phrasing of these in the third person doesn't mean I wouldn't appreciate
> an answer from you yourself Jorge :-)

Never fear, such details would never stop me from responding :)

> Finally, is the following a case of stones in glass houses, or is this
> accepted usage in the Lojbani community:

I will defend my use here, but I'm certainly throwing from a glass house.

> JL: i zo'o zo kurji se panci le malglico
> ...
> JL: i mi xagji le jboselsku
>          -----
>
> i.e. can you hunger for something intangible as a food or fuel?

Why not? What I can't imagine is taking care of an event, but maybe
it's fine. As I said, we use the same expression in Spanish, and
Esperanto also uses it, so it's not really pure malglico.

> If so, I
> ask:
>
> .glibau
>
> .i le jboselsku cu cidja ma? gi'a livla ?ma

cidja le menli gi'e livla le nu cilre le jbobau
i zo'o

mi'e xorxes