Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0plJNy-0000R4C; Mon, 28 Mar 94 18:37 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5125; Mon, 28 Mar 94 18:37:55 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5124; Mon, 28 Mar 1994 18:37:55 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8108; Mon, 28 Mar 1994 17:36:34 +0200 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 12:43:38 GMT Reply-To: Matthew Faupel Sender: Lojban list From: Matthew Faupel Subject: Not quite a proposal, but definitely mad... X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1738 Lines: 41 All of the following is to be taken with a large dose of salt and should probably be marked semi-zo'o. MF: How about: MF: MF: mi paroi tcidu ba'o lenu no'a I read once again JL: I would translate the last one as: "I read only once after having read JL: only once." As Jorge (implicitly) points out, "no'a" is recursive. I would guess that the full translation of the above would actually be "I read only once after having read only once, after having read only once... etc.". Has this recursiveness ever been found useful? Would a more appropriate definition of the semantics of "no'a" (and "nei") be "the outer (current) bridi, with no'a (nei) replaced by some null value that renders any sumti containing no'a (nei) as equivalent to zo'e"? Is this any more useful? Should this be formalised as a mad proposal? Second not quite proposal. Following Jorge's seemingly sensible suggestion of having an equivalent to roi as mei is to moi, how about a remapping as follows: nei -> nau (unused becomes current bridi) rei -> nei (current bridi becomes hex digit E) new thing -> rei (hex digit E becomes new tense thing) We could of course use "nau" for the new tense saving all this remapping, but given that (I suspect) "nei" and "rei" are not used outside of the grammatical papers describing their use, the remapping would probably not be costly and would end up with rei/roi nicely paired with mei/moi. "nei" is suggested for hex digit E instead of "nau" to preserve the vowel sound. A variation of this suggestion is to use one of the free CV'V cmavo for the current bridi pro-bridi. It seems a waste to use a CVV cmavo for a relatively unused word... Cheers, Matthew