Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0qTxMy-000023C; Fri, 29 Jul 94 22:13 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9136; Fri, 29 Jul 94 22:12:07 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 9131; Fri, 29 Jul 1994 22:12:06 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8266; Fri, 29 Jul 1994 21:11:12 +0200 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 15:12:24 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: The Fifty United States, etc. X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: <199407281608.AA16937@nfs1.digex.net> from "Phillip Delaquess" at Jul 28, 94 11:01:27 am Content-Length: 11602 Lines: 276 Well, here's my detailed critique. BTW, this is not to undercut your effort in actually doing the work -- it's much easier to correct something like this than to do it in the first place. (Ditto for the German placenames, Erik.) > united states iunaityd steits iuNAItyd. steits. Remember that "y" syllables, like "[rlmn]" ones, are skipped in figuring penultimate stress. > washington dc UAcin,tn diCIS I don't like this "diCIS" much. Either follow English pronunciation with "diSIS.", or else use "dycys.", using Lojban letter words. > > alabama alybamas elybemas, per Brian Gottlieb's list (henceforth BG) > montgomery mantGAmeris mantgamyris. > birmingham BRminxam > mobile mobil > alaska aleskas .yleskas. (BG) > juneau dzunos djunos. > anchorage ANkoridz ENkoridj. > fairbanks ferbanks feirbenks. > arizona arisonas erizonas. (BG) > phoenix finyks > tuscon tusan > tempe tempes > arkansas ARknsas > little rock LItl,rak > california kalifornias kelifornias. (BG) > sacramento sakramentos sekrymentos. (BG modified) > san francisco sanfransiskos senfrensiskos. (BG) sanfransiskos. (Spanish) > los angeles losANdzylys [spanish: losANxeles] losENdjylys. > colorado kolorados kyl,r,ados. > denver denvr > boulder boldr > pueblo pueblos > connecticut konEtikyt kn,Etikit. > hartford xartfrd > bridgeport bridzport bridjport. > new haven nuxevn nuxeivn. (Your version sounds like "New Heaven" !) > delaware dely,uer > dover dovr > wilmington UILmin,tn > florida FLOridas flarydas. [Spanish: FLOridas.] > tallahassee talyxasis telyxasis. (BG) > jacksonville DZAKsnvil djek,sn,vil. (BG modified; no stress mark needed ) > miami mai,iamis mai,emis. > tampa tampas tempas. (BG) > orlando orlandos orlendos. (BG) > georgia djordjas > atlanta atlantas etLANtys. (BG) > savannah syvanas syvanys. (BG) > hawaii xyvai'is > honolulu xanylulus > idaho aidyxos > boise boisis > illinois ilyNOIS > springfield sprinfild > chicago cikagos > indiana indi,ianas > indianapolis indi,n,Apolis indi,n,Epolis. (BG) > gary garis geris. > fort wayne fort,ue,n Overkill, I think: "fort,uen." The English syllable "way" is difficult in Lojban: the natural spelling is "uei", but that turns out to mean "ue,i" because Lojban doesn't have triphthongs. > iowa AIo,uas > des moines deMOIN dymoin. > kansas kansas [!] kensys. (BG) > topeka topikas topikys. (BG) > wichita UItcitas > kentucky kentukis kenTYkis. (BG modified) > frankfurt frankfrt frenkfrt. > louisville LUy,vil LUy,vl (BG) This leads naturally to telling of a fiendish trap. Ask your victim, "How do you pronounce the capital of Kentucky, {LUys,vl} or {LUy,vl}?" The victim will indignantly answer "{LUy,vl}", at which point you sweetly inform him/her that "the capital of Kentucky is pronounced {frankfrt.}" I once caught a native Kentuckian with this! > louisiana lu,uisi,anas luzi,ENys. (that's how they pronounce it there!) > baton rouge batnRUZ betnRUJ. > new orleans nu,orLINS [or nu,or,lyns] > maine mein > augusta auGYStys .aGYStys. (BG) > portland portlynd > bangor bangr bengr. (BG) > maryland merylynd > annapolis aNApolis .eNEpylis. > baltimore BALtimor I say "boltymor.", but the natives say "bolt,myr.". > massachusetts masyTCUsyts mesyTCUsyts > boston bas,tn > michigan micygn > lansing lensin > detroit diTROIT > minnesota minesotas > saint paul seintPAL > minneapolis mini,Apolis mini,epylis. (no stress mark needed) > duluth duLUT dyLUT. (BG) > mississippi misisipis > jackson dzak,sn djek,sn. > missouri misuris miZURys. (local shibboleth) > jefferson city DZEfr,sn sitis DJEF,r,sn. sitis. > saint louis seintlu,is > montana montanas mantenas. (BG) > helena xelinas > billings bilins > nebraska nebraskas nybreskas. (BG modified) > lincoln lin,kn > omaha Omaxas > nevada nevadas nyvadas. > carson city kar,sn sitis > las vegas lesvegas lasveigas. > new hampshire nuxamcr nuxamp,cr. (I think the locals pronounce the "p") > concord kankrd > manchester MANtces,tr MENtces,tr. > new jersey nudzersis nudjerzis. > trenton trenton [!] tren,tn. > newark nu,uark nu,rk (I was born there) > new mexico nuMEKsikos > santa fe santaFES sentyFEIS. (BG modified) > albuquerque ALbykerkis .ELby,kr,kis. > new york nu,IORK nuIORK (no comma needed) > albany albynis olbynis. (local pronunciation, first syllable is "awl". > buffalo BYfylos > rochester RAtces,tr > syracuse sirykius sirykiuz. > binghamton BINxam,tn BIN,m,tn. (The "h" is silent.) > north carolina nortkarolainas Invalid, contains vowel+"lai". "nortkerlainas." > raleigh rales rolis. (local shibboleth: "rawlee"). > charlotte carlyt > north dakota nortdakotas nortdykotas. > bismark bismark [!] bizmark. > fargo fargos > ohio oxaios o'ai,os. > columbus koLYMbys > cleveland klivlynd > cincinnati sinsinatis (sinsemilla, anybody?) sinsinetis. > oklahoma oklyxomas okly'omas. > oklahoma city oklyxomasitis okly'omasitis. > tulsa tulsas tylsas. > oregon ORegan .orygan. > salem seilym > portland portlynd > eugene iuDZIN .iuDJIN. > pennsylvania pen,sl,veinias > harrisburg XArisbrg > philadelphia filyDELfi,as no change (but natives say "fyLYFia") > pittsburgh pitsbrg > rhode island rodailynd > providence PRAvydns > south carolina sautkarolainas sautkerlainas. > columbia koLYMbi,as koLYMbi,ys. > south dakota sautdakotas sautdykotas. > pierre pi,IER > sioux falls suFALS suFALZ. > tennessee tenySIS > nashville nacvil necvil. > memphis memfis > texas teksas tekses. > austin aus,tn .as,tn. > houston xius,tn I think ".ius,tn" is better. > dallas dalys delys. (BG) > utah iutas > salt lake city saltleiksitis > vermont verMANT vrMANT. > montpelier mantPEli,er mantPIlier (local shibboleth) > burlington BURlin,tn br,lin,tn. > virginia virdzinias vrdjinias. > richmond ritcmynd > norfolk norfok > washington UAcin,tn > olympia oLIMpi,as > seattle si,A,tl siEtl (BG) > west virginia uestvirdzinias uest. vrdjinias. (clearly separated in speech) > charleston TCAR,l,stn TCARLstn (BG) > wisconsin uiskansin > madison madysn medy,sn > milwaukee miluakis > wyoming ui,omin > cheyenne cai,AN cai,EN. (BG) > casper kaspr kespr. -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban.