Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0qShkY-000023C; Tue, 26 Jul 94 11:20 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7186; Tue, 26 Jul 94 11:19:09 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 7182; Tue, 26 Jul 1994 11:19:08 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2317; Tue, 26 Jul 1994 10:18:14 +0200 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 02:11:34 -0600 Reply-To: Chris Bogart Sender: Lojban list From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: ciska bai tu'a zo bai X-To: lojban@cuvmb.bitnet To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1880 Lines: 45 CHRIS> Since the attitudinal is relative to the speaker it would never CHRIS> (I presume) be correct to say "mi ga'i" or "mi ga'inai" since you can't CHRIS> be ranked differently from yourself. Again quite different from CHRIS> Japanese. JC> I think this is a valid corollary of the current rules. JORGE>You and lojbab seem to disagree on what are the current rules. JORGE> JORGE>Lojbab gave the example {mi ga'i je do ga'i zukte}, meaning that JORGE>honorable me and honorable you do something. LOJBAB>I think I said later in that article that I relaized that I had just LOJBAB>reversed them in the example. Just as I did later for va'i/va'inai. You didn't just reverse them. Suppose we've all agreed that "ga'i" will mean high rank and "ga'inai" will mean low rank. Then let's translate the following: ga'i do zukte ((I'm relatively high ranked!) you act) -> I rank high, maybe above you ga'i mi zukte ((I'm relatively high ranked!) I act) -> I rank high mi ga'i zukte (I (I'm relatively high ranked!) act) -> I rank high (?) do ga'i zukte (You (I'm relatively high ranked!) act) -> You rank lower than me do ga'inai zukte (You (I'm relatively low ranked!) act) -> You rank higher than me So if you want to say "honorable me and honorable you do something" it should be: do ga'inai .e mi ga'i zukte Making do and mi highly-ranked requires opposite cmavo, and that is what is confusing everybody, I think. BTW, was it a typo or is it really possible to say "do je me" instead of "do .e mi"? I thought "je" was for sentences and tanru only. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Bogart cbogart@quetzal.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~