Message-Id: <m0qRglV-000023C@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Sat, 23 Jul 1994 09:01:11 EDT
Reply-To:     "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@GRACKLE.STOCKBRIDGE.MA.US>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@GRACKLE.STOCKBRIDGE.MA.US>
Subject:      Re: ga'i[nai]
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 3352
Lines: 85

    > ..., however, Zipf may argue for a reversal of meaning for ga'i,
    > since almost all examples of actual usage are of "ga'inai", and
    > a lot more people have reason to be obsequious than blatantly
    > pompous.

The argument has two parts:

  * The observation that in general, more frequently used words or
    phrases are shorter.

  * The inference that in constructing a language, those phrases or
    words that are shorter will be used more frequently.

The fear is that people who speak in Lojban may forgo opportunities to
express their obsequiousness if that expression requires an extra
syllable.

In my experience,  Zipf's rule fails for obsequiousness:  Those who
express lower rank use more words.  They use expressions such as

    `Would you be so kind to...'

    `Please ...'

rather than the plain expression.  They will use a phrase, as I did
just above, "In my experience", not only to state the source of the
information (i.e., as with the evidentials {za'a} or {ba'a}), but also
to reduce the degree of rudeness associated with the unadorned
predication, "Zipf's rule fails".  (In English, the position of the
extra phrase determines its quality.  Had I intended it to be only an
evidential, I would have written it after the main clause.)

Granted, grammatically encoded hauteur may take no extra words, as
with the use of `you' or `vous' rather than `thou' or `tu'; but titles
are another matter:

    Sir, My Lord, Your Grace, Your Royal Highness

 <- lower ranking knight --- higher ranking royal ->

(Note that the rank of `Sergeant' was once high.)

Also, in English, and I think in other languages, most defaults
associated with {ga'i} are higher rather than lower: `honorable'
is the default, not `dishonorable'.  The phrase `he ranks me' means
`he has higher rank', not `he has lower rank'.

Children, in our culture, are normally taught to use the additional
word `please' when asking for something as in `Please pass the salt.'
`Please' is both a token of politeness, as with {e'o} or {pe'u}, and a
token of rank, as can be seen by the token of politeness used by
adults to each other, which is to pose a request as a question: `Would
you pass the salt.'  (Children take some time trying to figure this
out since at dinner table they are told to behave differently from the
adults on whom they model themselves.)

Finally, can you imagine the captain who says:

    I, who am the opposite of humble, will go down with my ship!

No.  The captain says [using the original definition of {ga'i}]:

    ga'i mi se catra ba'o le li'i selsre

    <as becomes my rank> I be killed by the aftermath of the
    experience of this error.


catra              kill 'slaughter' <> x1 (agent) kills/slaughters/murders
   x2 by action/method x3 <> (cf. morsi, xarci)

srera     sre      err <> x1 errs in doing/being/making mistake x2
   (event), an error under conditions x3 by standard x4 <>
   (cf. drani, which is non-agentive, cfila, fliba)

ba'o      ZAhO  perfective
                  interval event contour: in the aftermath of ...; since
                  ...; perfective | |----


{ga'inai}, {e'o} keep the definition of {ga'i} as is.

    Robert J. Chassell               bob@grackle.stockbridge.ma.us
    25 Rattlesnake Mountain Road     bob@gnu.ai.mit.edu
    Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA   (413) 298-4725