From LOJBAN%CUVMB.BITNET@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU Sat Jul 30 20:02:30 1994 Message-Id: <199407310002.AA27788@nfs1.digex.net> Date: Sat Jul 30 20:02:30 1994 Reply-To: ucleaar Sender: Lojban list From: ucleaar Subject: Re: current cmene project X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Bob LeChevalier Status: RO I said: > As I understand things, "la beidjin" (for example) refers to something > named by the form "beidjin" (where the namer is the speaker). It would > seem to me that if we want a word for (in this case) the capital of > the Republic of China, we want something that instead means "x such ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [I take this opportunity to emend this to 'People's Republic of China'. Had I been writing in Lojban my usage would have been correct, since in Lojban 'la grg' means 'that which I am calling "grg"'. If, however, I has used a fuhivla whose denotation is the island of Taiwan, then my usage would have been in error, since I was intending to refer to mainland China.] > that x is Beijing", *NOT* "x such that I am calling x 'beidjin'". If > this is right, then Lojban Central should be seeking fuhivla, not > cmene, for the various states of the USA, etc. & Jorge responds: > I don't see why should there be a difference in naming cities or people. > la beidjin is the name of an individual, not a generic name. The denotation of "la beidjin" is the members of the class of things called (by the speaker) /beidjin/. The only reasons for not also using fuhivla for individual people are practical ones. * There are many more people than there are cities. * One uses vocatives for people more than for cities. But the reasons for using fuhivla whenever feasible are principled: the hearer is not entitled to make more than a well-founded guess that "la beidjin" refers to Beijing, whereas the hearer can be 100% certain that "lo tcadrbeidjinu" refers to Beijing. I could refer to you with "la beidjin", but not with "lo tcadrbeidjinu" (though I could refer to you with "le tcadrbeidjinu"). > A fuhivla > like {tcadrbeidjinu} would mean something like "x1 is a Beijing City". Quite right. "ro lohi tcadrbeidjinu" [if this means 'the set of all x such that x is a Beijing City'] has one member. - ---- And