Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0qQQWA-000023C; Wed, 20 Jul 94 04:32 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8359; Wed, 20 Jul 94 04:30:46 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 8357; Wed, 20 Jul 1994 04:30:45 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0869; Wed, 20 Jul 1994 03:29:54 +0200 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 21:33:06 EDT Reply-To: jorge@PHYAST.PITT.EDU Sender: Lojban list From: Jorge Llambias Subject: Re: cukta X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva Content-Length: 1351 Lines: 41 la djer cusku di'e > The description of the x1 of cukta has been changed from "..not > a physical object.." to "[a physical object or its analogue]". > I take it from this that I can say: > > La djan benji le cukta mi NY mrilu > John transfers the book to me from NY by mail. A correction on the grammar: la djan benji le cukta mi la nu,iork le xe mrilu > > and I need to say: > La djan benji le se cukta mi NY fonxa > John transfers the book to me from NY by modem. again: la djan benji le se cukta mi la nu,iork le fonxa > > Is this correct? In both cases, John is transferring to you {le cukta}, as far as I understand. They have different media {le xe cukta}, but both are copies/materializations of a work, {le se cukta}, that doesn't have a physical location because it is something abstract, something that is one single thing, no matter how many copies in how many media. > Also, what is the analogue of a physical > object? Is it always physical? Or can it after all be the information > contained in a wave, for example? The electromagnetic waves are physical enough. I don't know if they constitute a book during the process of transferral, because there's not much you can do with them then, but they certainly are not the work created by an author. Jorge