Return-Path: <@FINHUTC.HUT.FI:LOJBAN@CUVMB.BITNET> Received: from FINHUTC.hut.fi by xiron.pc.helsinki.fi with smtp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0qTFPy-000023C; Wed, 27 Jul 94 23:17 EET DST Message-Id: Received: from FINHUTC.HUT.FI by FINHUTC.hut.fi (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5933; Wed, 27 Jul 94 23:16:16 EET Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin MAILER@SEARN) by FINHUTC.HUT.FI (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5930; Wed, 27 Jul 1994 23:16:15 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5746; Wed, 27 Jul 1994 22:15:24 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:13:16 -0400 Reply-To: Logical Language Group Sender: Lojban list From: Logical Language Group Subject: Re: Lojbanized German place names X-To: lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu To: Veijo Vilva In-Reply-To: from "Erik Rauch" at Jul 27, 94 12:02:18 pm Content-Length: 2077 Lines: 54 Erik Rauch writes: > I used the standard German pronunciation rather than that of the residents > of these places themselves. The "ue" sound is halfway between lojban u > and e, so I chose u for visual recognizability. I have argued in the past that the correct equivalents of \"u and \"o are Lojban "i" and "e" respectively, because roundedness does not count in Lojban, only tongue position. So "i" matches any high front vowel, and "e" any mid half-front vowel. Turkish, e.g. is "natrmtirki,ie". You missed devoicing a few final consonants, as Standard NHG pronunciation demands. The sequence "la" is now legal in names as long as a consonant immediately precedes it. Here are my suggested revisions. Feel free to take issue with any of them. > xamburg. Hamburg xamburk. > mEklenburg. Mecklenburg mEklenburk. > dUs,ldorf. Duesseldorf dIs,ldorf. > kyln. Koeln (Cologne) keln. > byn. Bonn bon. (Why the "y"?) > rainlynd. fAlts. Rheinland Pfalz (Rhineland-Palatinate) rainlant. pfalts. (If this is two names, no stress mark is needed, and "pf" is not a problem in names, either.) > zarlynd. Saarland zarlant. > brAnd,nburg. Brandenburg brAnd,nburk. > tUring,n. Thueringen (Thuringia) tIring,n. > bad,n. vUrt,mberg. Baden Wuerttemberg bad,n. vIrt,mberk. > bai,rn. Bayern (Bavaria) bai,yrn. (Unfortunately, this exposes a limitation in Lojban vocalic consonants. A syllable "rn" is ambiguous as to whether the "r" or the "n" is the vowel, and should be avoided; what you have is ambiguous between G. "Bayern" and E. "Byron".) > munx,n. Muenchen (Munich) minx,n. > nurnberg. Nuernberg (Nuremberg) nirnberk. -- John Cowan sharing account for now e'osai ko sarji la lojban.