Message-Id: <m0qUJ8F-000023C@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Sat, 30 Jul 1994 14:16:00 EST
Reply-To:     SLAUGHTER <HALDANE@PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         SLAUGHTER <HALDANE@PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: current cmene project
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 1654
Lines: 30

From:         ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>

>As I understand things, "la beidjin" (for example) refers to something
>named by the form "beidjin" (where the namer is the speaker). It would
>seem to me that if we want a word for (in this case) the capital of
>the Republic of China, we want something that instead means "x such
>that x is Beijing", *NOT* "x such that I am calling x 'beidjin'". If
>this is right, then Lojban Central should be seeking fuhivla, not
>cmene, for the various states of the USA, etc.

Naming is speaker-referent, not absolute.  I'm sure the Native Americans had a
name for the swamp we later called Washington, D.C., and in some point in the
future, it may be called the Place-that-Was or some such by the
pos-nuclear-holocaust inhabitants of the area. (see the short story "By the
Waters of Babylon") Even now, some Americans have names for the place that are
not really suitable for a public forum.

I just wish we could have content-bearing cmene.  I'd love to see a lojbanic
cmene for the Snake River that non-accidentally had the "snakey-shaped river"
lujvo in it.

Makes translating, or creating, some naming traditions easier.  People like Sun
Bear, or Moon Unit Zappa.

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*     Bob Slaughter                         *  Model Railroading         *
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