Message-Id: <m0qVEvT-000023C@xiron.pc.helsinki.fi>
Date:         Tue, 2 Aug 1994 04:08:57 -0400
Reply-To:     Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Sender:       Lojban list <LOJBAN%CUVMB.bitnet@FINHUTC.hut.fi>
From:         Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>
Subject:      Re: ga'i[nai]
Cc:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu
To:           Veijo Vilva <veion@XIRON.PC.HELSINKI.FI>
Content-Length: 1258
Lines: 24

LL> Yes, but this is still speaker-centered.  There is no way to express the
LL> relationship between the Emperor and his hovel without reference to
LL> oneself. The above form works if you are of middle rank; if you are
LL> Pooh-Bah, Lord High Everything Else, you need to say:
LL>
LL>                 le doga'inairu'e zdani ga'icai
LL>
LL> whereas if you are a mere Second Trombone, you must say:
LL>
LL>                 le doga'inaicai zdani ga'iru'e

So for Pooh-Bah, you have 1 level above and 3 levels below.  For peon you
have 1 level below (for the trash) and 3 levels above.  Still 4 other levels.
If you are in the middle, you get 3 levels in both directions.  The range
in refinement is still 5-7 levels except for the extremes, and it could be
argued that for those at the extremes, the other scales probably seem quite
compressed anyway - to that peon, the difference between Emperor and Grand
Duke isn't much but perhaps real, but betweeen Grand Duke down through the
nobility is one mass of too-highness.  The close level of honorific might
then be used for elders of ones social level, if age is also a source of
honorific.  That should be enough levels.  (I'll admit that it puts the
kids down with the trash at peon level, though.)

lojbab